Payware Models and the Forums

[mendes]

Why does anyone (freeware or payware) have to post stuff about their WIP at all?
If the end product is any good then word of mouth will sell it to the punters.

I think that is a very unfair thing to say about all of the UKTS members who have contributed to the hundreds, if not thousands of add-ons that are available in the file download area for the likes of you to download and use free of charge.

I post about my "stuff"...as a freeware developer, that is....because I build for my own pleasure...not to sell to anyone, those you casually refer to as "the punters". I believe that many members of the forum have an interest in what other members are doing, and some are interested in seeing and reading about add-ons that are being developed. This interest could could quite easily give them the urge to even have a go at building themselves.

My personal opinion (which is not the UKTS official line) about posts announcing the availability of, or showing work in progress on payware add-ons is that it is a form of advertising, and as such should not be allowed on the forum without some form of fee. The UKTS forums cost money to run, and I believe anyone gaining financially from using the forum should contribute towards the running costs.

Point taken Doug, maybe I could have expressed this a bit better (or preferably not have done so at all!)

I think your point about financial gain is on the money.

[jbilton]

Hi
I'd assumed that was the reason for the relaxation on payware ......... to try to encourage KRS development, at any level.
I agree about the WIPS.... surely that is actually what the forums are about.
To be honest I think of late, there isn't enough discussion on WIPs.... lets see some more please.
I don't know if UKTS is struggling, but if it is, I'm sure Matt would make an announcement.
If its not, then I never could see the problem.
Cheers
Jon

[bigvern]

Problem with WIPS and I'm guilty myself in that respect, is that they are exactly that until final release. I recently started two routes in KRS (one an Irish route the other LT) but got totally bored, lost interest and ditched them, ergo vapourware. Now trying to keep up my interest in a third project I've started, largely because I suddenly found a load of my old TSM source stuff from MSTS backed up on a CD so I can import the buildings into KRS. May not be pretty but better than nothing.

Having learned my lesson (twice), however, I'm not going to make any announcement as to what the route might be or ETA for release until completion is a certainty.

[RSderek]

One thing I believe is that MSTS has had a fairly good balance between payware and freeware content, and one has and still does compliment the other. On the other hand, at the moment I fear that Rail Simulator has an imbalance in favour of payware that is not going to be good for the hobby or the product....there needs to be a shift towards more freeware and less payware until the product reaches a point where the community-built content can maintain the momentum.

Hi Doug,

I'm not sure where you are getting this information from, if you look here; http://www.railsimulator.com/en/3rdparty

You will see how many payware items there are available to users. Now compare that list with the free Download content for RS on UKTS.
Can you explain to me what the balance should be in your eyes?

regards

Derek

[thenudehamster]

AS far as this site goes, there's a big difference between blatant advertising and what might be classed as the equivalent of 'product placement' in film and TV. For those who are not sure, product placement is just that - standard dining room scene in, for example, Eastenders, and there's a box of Corn Flakes on the table; one day it'll be one brand and the next time it might be another, but the days when they used black tape all over the boxes to block out brands and logos are long gone.

What does this have to do with us here? Simple. I don't mind the likes of buffy500 and rsderek talking part in these forums and dropping the odd hint or two about some upcoming projects, compilations or add-ons which will be on sale at some future date. That's the equivalent of the corn flakes packet - we all know what they do and who they do it for and we accept it. To announce the release date of the project, with pictures and prices, is the equivalent of the mid-programme tea-break and ought to be treated as such - nice big photos on the front page of the site and nice fat cheque into UKTS coffers.

Please don't for a moment think that I'm implying that Dave or Derek would advertise in underhand fashion - they happen to have posted on here and they are names I used to illustrate members with a commercial connection, and nothing more. My apologies if any other impression came across.

Anyway, as far as this subject goes, I think a large dose of common sense will go a long way to avoiding any problems at all.

[3DTrains]

the subject of commercial add-on providers effectively getting free advertising for their products on a medium they do not contribute towards the costs of.

Not a fair assessment, Doug. There are some of us payware vendors that actually do contribute their $$ towards UKTS - even if some of us don't actually use features besides the forums. This in no way should be implied that I feel I deserve to post what and where I want, just that I never take for granted the services UKTS provides this community, and kick back to UKTS what I can and when I can.

FWIW.

[petermakosch]

What I would suggest as a good way of resolving this unclarity is that if an item, a route, a stock pack etc. is going to be released as Payware, that the author, or a moderator could place a simple [p] in the title, if it is freeware an [f] is placed in the title, or if it is other, ie Demoware, Donationware etc. a [o] is placed in the title and then the type of release explaine first line.. This allows everyone to know exactly where a route stands and should alleviate any confusion.

Its already been done,People just ask in the forums what it is
MARTIN

It has?

When?

I have never seen something like this. IIRC, it was something matt was looking at for a forum he was building to replace this in the infamous UKTS v2 it works quite well in other forums, with a gap above all the topics telling users what key means what.