Atomic Systems

Dear Matt,

I feel that freedom of speech seems to be no longer tollerated on the forum.
To day some one asked about the Nagjapur route and I wrote a truthfull reply saying that the route was very basic,with the trains not very close to the platform ,scenery quite basic, 2 activities crashed,and items of rolling stock that were needed were not in the readme.

On looking in the forum to night all I've had is critisism for writing an honest opinion,I even stated it was just my opinion,but as the PC brigade don't seem to like this, incase it upsets some body I feel I can no longer use the forum.

I will continue to support UKTS by buying addons,but until I'm allowed to write an honest and truthful statement about an upload I feel I cannot use the forum any more.

Just like to thank the people who have helped me in the past,and as I'm still trying to get over the stroke I had in March,maybe that has affected my brain and has made me being blunt about things.

Best wishes forr the future.

Michael Hendle

michaelhendle wrote:Dear Matt,

I feel that freedom of speech seems to be no longer tollerated on the forum.
To day some one asked about the Nagjapur route

Before I reply, is this a route you have to pay for, or is it a free route?

It's a free route newly uploaded to this site yesterday. See http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewtopic. ... 38&t=89550

Easilyconfused wrote:See http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewtopic. ... 38&t=89550

Both the negative & positive are right. Some don't like it, and some do like it, but IF it was a route that you had to pay for, then that would be a different matter. But yes, as it states in the other thread, I would like to see some screenshots. With train simulators, remember that in a number of cases, you can't help having wide gaps between the carriages, and stations.

Its a difficult line to draw On the one hand if someone asks for an honest opinion, it should be possible to provide that without fear of recrimination. But conversely, if someone has laboured long hours to produce something for the benefit of others, then being critical does nothing to encourage that person to continue.

Looking back at some of my early activities now, I think some are pretty awful and wouldnt meet my exacting standards today, but at the time they were greeted with praise and it was that which kept me going in the hobby. Adverse critisicm at that point might have made me throw msts away for good.

Now i tend to take the line that if I cant say anything good about something, I keep quiet. Silence is, in its way, its own critisicm. If people like something they will jump up and down and say how good it is. No comments usually means its less good but doesnt necessarily add to the author discouragement.

michaelhendle wrote: To day some one asked about the Nagjapur route and I wrote a truthfull reply saying that the route was very basic,with the trains not very close to the platform ,scenery quite basic, 2 activities crashed,and items of rolling stock that were needed were not in the readme.

Michael, if that was all you had originally written, they'd have been no problem from me whatsoever. What I didn't like was the "don't bother" comment. I did not like the tone.

As a community, we're supposed to be here to help each other and as both a downloader and a contributor I've seen both sides of the equation. Instead of dismissing it just like that, we should be helping each other.

Lad491 wrote:Looking back at some of my early activities now, I think some are pretty awful and wouldnt meet my exacting standards today, but at the time they were greeted with praise and it was that which kept me going in the hobby. Adverse critisicm at that point might have made me throw msts away for good.

I remember dreading the response to my early contributions to UKTS, but thanks to some great help and advice early on, I've gone on to upload over 40 acts, units and scenery items. None of the people who looked at my contributions dismissed them and a few taught me some good tricks for future acts/re-skins, all of which I took onboard.

Like you, if I'd been jumped on back then, I'd have probably given up. But instead I got encouragement and now I'm a lot more thick-skinned.

Lad491 wrote:Now i tend to take the line that if I cant say anything good about something, I keep quiet

That I disagree with Laurie. There's always room for constructive criticism, it's just how people go about it.



Finally, as for freedom of speech, it only exists to a certain degree. We can only say what we feel up to a point whether it's on a forum (or even in real life). The concept of 'total free speech' has never existed and I should know in my line of work! If we were allowed total free speech, they'd be no need for moderators!

Lad491 wrote:Its a difficult line to draw On the one hand if someone asks for an honest opinion, it should be possible to provide that without fear of recrimination. But conversely, if someone has laboured long hours to produce something for the benefit of others, then being critical does nothing to encourage that person to continue.

Looking back at some of my early activities now, I think some are pretty awful and wouldnt meet my exacting standards today, but at the time they were greeted with praise and it was that which kept me going in the hobby. Adverse critisicm at that point might have made me throw msts away for good.

Now i tend to take the line that if I cant say anything good about something, I keep quiet. Silence is, in its way, its own critisicm. If people like something they will jump up and down and say how good it is. No comments usually means its less good but doesnt necessarily add to the author discouragement.

I agree with your summary but Michael answered a question which was likely to result in criticsm. You have to be careful of the 'one liners' which invite others to put themselves in the firing line. They come back, agree and you get shot at.

The arguments over criticism of uploads have raged since 2001.

We've seen constructive criticism which may be meant well but there's so much and so detailed that it can fell like a subtle demolition job. A simple 'I don't like it' would be preferable in some cases.

A resounding silence is enough to put many off but at least it doesn't appear personal.

The urge to use the word Muppet is sometimes, almost overwhelming. But I know I'm not allowed