Announcement re: commercial pre-release screenshots rule

allypally · Post by **allypally** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:24 pm

lateagain wrote:You owe that to Malcolm Roper, although he may have been a bigger man than me with a bigger heart for forgiveness!

What hurt has been done to this person or persons that can possibly justify this action????

I can only hope that this total meanness of spirit and spitefulness is not due to ill health impairing the judgement of whoever is taking this action.

Geoff

To leave out the bit that I consider irrelevant (I don't have time to be drawn into the argument) I must say that I do agree wholeheartedly here with that point. The other CDs removal might be justifiable by some means, but I can say that I can't see any real reason to withdraw permission to use files on a tribute to the life of a person who did so much for this community, and is no longer with us.

Lad491 · Post by **Lad491** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:53 pm

I'm very angry

Your not alone Geoff. Im angry, and have sometimes been angry beyond words. Ive basically kept quiet in order not to provoke a flame war.

dikkidee · Post by **dikkidee** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:30 pm

LAD491 - You are right, myself and I think most are quietly "Ticking" but keeping in the main quiet for the good of the community Matt and the good ship UKTS. WE WILL come through in the end and the better for it no doubt.

Regards, Dick.

johndibben · Post by **johndibben** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:43 pm

I lost my temper about this privately which I'm not proud of.

Is this the standard industrial model of the future?

jbilton · Post by **jbilton** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:55 pm

Hi
Well I've certainly been angry a couple of times these last few days....but more over the reactions of certain members of this site.
I've seen new sides to people I thought we're OK...and it hasn't been nice.
Unfortunately this is not as easy to repair or replace, as a few models in a virtual world.
Cheers
Jon

allypally · Post by **allypally** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 10:51 pm

I'm sorry, but the official post by BlueArrow on the BlueArrowTS forums that implies Pat Dalton is some sort of profiteering money grubber does kind of destroy any sympathy I had for the Blue Arrow cause. The PR department doesn't seem to be working very well, if you ask me.

qzdcg8 · Post by **qzdcg8** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:10 pm

allypally wrote:I'm sorry, but the official post by BlueArrow on the BlueArrowTS forums that implies Pat Dalton is some sort of profiteering money grubber does kind of destroy any sympathy I had for the Blue Arrow cause. The PR department doesn't seem to be working very well, if you ask me.

I'm sorry but I can not let that stand unanswered. This is definitely NOT the case. Those were not the words used at all.

Post by **martinhodgson** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:12 pm

Perhaps not the exact words, but they still strongly imply that UKTS and Pat all make about Â£2 profit per CD, which as Matt has stated, is far from the truth.

allypally · Post by **allypally** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:20 pm

I didn't say said, I said implied, which is open to interpretation. Here is the exact quote which I will include for posterity (partly so I can be judged if I got the implication wrong, and partly so that the quote can be seen):

bluearrow wrote:Pat has stopped selling the CD, which means he can no longer make his profit!

It certainly implies to me that Pat has been in the wrong the whole time.

Post by **NeutronIC** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:38 pm

I do hope someone will clarify for Mike that UKTS has absolutely nothing to do with Pat's Skipton to Calisle 1920's CD. We have never shipped it other than, ironically, as a 100% free giveaway at exhibitions.

I received a note from Pat that he had been asked to cease distribution and he asked me to remove the pointer to his site since it was now irrelevant, I did and added a note on the news page so that folks would find out about it. Those carefully re-reading the post will see it was a purely matter of fact post.

Quite how anything to do with Skipton is a ploy from UKTS I have no idea, it has never been anything to do with us. First I heard of Skipton being affected was yesterday in Pat's email.

I do tend to agree that bringing Malcolm's memory in to it was rather unnecessary.

I have no intentions of damaging the commercial guys at all, about the only thing on this site that does make money is sales of commercial add-ons which all go towards things like the roadshows (at Â£500 to Â£1,000 a pop usually by the time you take all the costs in to account), so I have no intentions of hurting that income!

Terry's made his decision and I respect his right to do it, the CD's are no longer produced, per his request, and are disappearing from cd ordering as we (rapidly) run out of stock. I would like to state that I intend to fully comply with Terry's wishes as far as I understand them.

If there is anyone here with a hotline to Terry that can provide me with a formal answer from him to the question of whether routes containing his objects can still be hosted on UKTrainSim for download (bearing in mind the premium subscription) I would be very grateful for a reply. I have had numerous informal suggestions, interpretations and responses from other people, but they're Terry's objects and only he can give the green light for it.

As far as the rest of the topic, what a lot of uninformed nonsense.

I really do wish that everybody, UKTrainSim, BATS and everywhere else, would just drop this subject, no amount of complaining is going to change the situation - it's irrelevant anyway, the items are currently being replaced by a great team of developers currently busily working away.

It's all good. It's a blip, normal service will resume shortly, so cheer up and let's look at the positive things in life.

Matt.

jimmyladd · Post by **jimmyladd** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:54 pm

Post deleted now I have carmed down...Appologies if I've inflamed things
Jim

mickoo · Post by **mickoo** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:01 am

lateagain wrote:Well I have to say that the news about Skipton is just about the straw that breaks the camels back.

Name and Shame.

If they want to hit out at us let them have the courage to identify themselves. At the moment they come about the level of muggers or graphitti smearers in my level of respect.

Geoff

Geoff,

I have you down as a moderate and level headed person but those comments are not something l'd not expected to hear from someone of your standing.

You already know who took what and l have told you what l took and why, if you wish to take it out on someone then please feel free to do so on myself, if it will allow you to let go and move on then feel free. I have been called many things and the above are by comparison quite complimentary.

As discussed in the BATs forum and as mentioned by Matt here, bringing Malcoms name into the fray is just bad cricket.

We are all mature enough here to debate, l suggest even the most sensitive of subjects, we do not need to add weight to our words with dishonoring the fallen by dragging there name through all this.

Mike H replied that it was a cheap shot, l'd say they were a touch strong words, but l'd defy anyone to not react in a simular vein if stood accused of the same disrespect.

If people are going to use this sort of tack to garner favour with certain circles then l suggest its not a good thing to do for all concerned.

Kindest regards

Michael

sp762 · Post by **sp762** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:56 am

Quite agree that it isn't cricket.

Not trying to stifle debate in any way.

Let's all go for a Bex and a nice lie down.

lateagain · Post by **lateagain** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:05 am

Michael,

From where many of us sit it is not I that has shown disrespect. I am annoyed with myself that I posted in anger but sometimes people push too far.

Explain in simple English why Pat Dalton has been forced to withdraw this CD.

He doesn't have a web site.

The cost of his CD was exactly that. The cost of GIVING you the CD.

As to who is involved and which files have been removed, please point me to that post. I for one missed it.

You know that my earlier suggestion that a start end date for this change was suggested by other members of the commercial group. All that you wanted to achieve could have been achieved amicably.

So please don't try and take the moral high ground. It is not I that have wasted hundreds of hours of other peoples effort and you could have achieved the constructive part of your aim without doing so.

I'll leave you with the thought that whatever ANYBODIES rights are, they are balanced by their responsibilities.

Geoff

arabiandisco · Post by **arabiandisco** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:06 am

To paraphrase the Dear Leader, UKTS: Forward, Not Back. (And what a dire slogan it is). Going over this time and time again will only serve to prolong bad feeling and in the end that simply isn't worth it.

Things have happened and they can't be changed. So lets just celebrate the fact that there are people working to rectify the problems caused by these events.