copyright on trainsim cd`s

[Iluka]

Hi All

I tie all my superceded and/or not required CD's to my fruit trees as they are brilliant for keeping the blasted parrots from eating the fruit!!

Kindest Regards

Mike

[thenudehamster]

Computer software, of any kind, is considered 'intellectual property' similar to music, and performances; the law is slightly different to that pertaining to the printed word, tangible work of art, or product but, not being one of those precious people, a lawyer, I'm not really sure how the differences play out.

So far, all of the freeware CDs I've purchased are either awaiting installation or serving as backups; by the time I get around to having no further use for them, I expect them to be forming part of my estate - and that's another can of legal worms entirely

[nwallace]

Don't know about 3D models etc but code is considered as literature.

Has been claimed that since at machine level its nothing more than number you can't copyright it but the obvious.

Have a look into Software Patents, soemthing i shoudl probably remove my head from the sand for.

[johndibben]

This is well out of touch with the current atmosphere but I consider the constant legal discussion when applied to a hobby and the simple distrubution of files to be against the whole spirit of the definition of the word.

The Law is there to protect but in a environment which is supposed to be friendly, inclusive and dedicated to the promotion of a hobby, constant and public reference to it can result in a negative impression being given.

Attempting to rule on the possible re-distribution of every piece of software and ensure no abuse is an impossible goal.

Accepting there is no need for every eventuality to be catered for, requesting courtesy and respect for the work of others would create a far more relaxed atmosphere.

As with medicine which is far more important, there's much which, if legislated for, simply raises more issues and therefore more legislation.

Lawyers get rich and the level of service drops.

It's the same here and appears to more a sign of boredom and lack of things to discuss than any serious attempt to obtain a definitive answer for all circumstances which anyone involved with creating legislation will inform you, is unobtainable.

[bigvern]

I think the issue is not re-distribution per se John, but as we have seen with the Ebay situation is other people making money off the backs of those who have created freeware. In some cases they have recompiled it into a fresh selection of routes. Now, in the spirit of the community, I have no objection if Joe Bloggs has one of my route CD's and passes it on to a mate (free of charge) who is also interested in train sim and wants the routes. They are free and as there is no profit I cannot have any objection to that. What I do object to is someone flogging it on Ebay (maybe even duplicating the disc themselves) and making £10 profit on each one.

In some respects I think the term freeware as applied to MSTS routes etc. is a bit of a misnomer and perhaps we should be looking for a better definition. Freeware conjures up images of those little 5 min Amiga programmes which used to come on magazine floppy discs and not something which has been slaved at for months on end prior to release or even something like a Railsim route which probably took a week or two at most to create. Freeware does unfortunately imply "free for all." Maybe something like "non-commercial" would be a better term.

To those of us who have created routes and seen our good intentions abused by a tiny minority of the community, this is an important matter and not just something we're discussing because we are bored. How the community as a whole deals with the issue will directly affect how myself and other content creators approach route creation and distribution in the future both for MSTS and other programmes. In particular, why stay "freeware" (aka non-commercial) if going commercial ensures, 1. You get some reward for the work done and, 2. Commercial publishers can put out work with some element of copy protection and legal "clout" if the copyright is abused. That said, I'm sure I will continue to do more non-commercial stuff than payware, providing I know that the community does not condone the re-selling that is currently going on.

[johndibben]

Well your work Vern, and that of others who provide these CD's is invaluable (pun intended) and popular. Perhaps too popular for some although I'm getting contraversial by saying that. Feel it's true though.

I feel the concept is getting bogged down in detail and names. A change of name might help but feel remaining focussed on the benefits would help members like yourself and the community rather than the depressing side of software abuse.

For anyone who's never been at the smelly end of such things, it is annoying and perhaps wrongly, feels very personal? To others it can appear trivial and being over-possesive.

I suspect mischief is a large factor in the current problems and therefore view any raising of the subject with suspicion.

I'm sure I speak for the majority in saying, try to avoid any 'traps' set and lack of courtesy and respect which will always be a problem and do what you enjoy most, making the routes

Personally, I reckon anyone who enjoys the RE is bonkers and deserves a break from such issues accordingly

There maybe some debate about how it's named and copyright issues but 99% of members appreciate your work and have probably used it.

No one asks what the majority want and it would be difficult to attempt a survey but I would say these CD's satisfy requirements of the majority far better than any other method of distribution.

Unique hobby, unique method of distibution (to the best of my knowledge) and unqiue problems but unique benefits and very effective method of route creation and distribution which is all that matters to most members Activities uploaded are a good sign of what's popular. They also mean the continued use of the route which must be of great satisfaction to the author.

[dwv1968]

not being one of those precious people, a lawyer, I'm not really sure how the differences play out.

Lawyers get rich and the level of service drops.

Personally, I reckon anyone who enjoys the RE is bonkers and deserves a break from such issues accordingly

Not much hope for a lawyer who enjoys the RE is there!

That said, I'm sure I will continue to do more non-commercial stuff than payware, providing I know that the community does not condone the re-selling that is currently going on.

I know I made the point about people being free to sell software provided that they don't keep a copy, but that doesn't mean I condone what's going on. Firstly, it's taking advantage of the hard work of others to make a quick buck and secondly it's ripping off consumers who don't know that the product is available elsewhere for almost nothing.

Just because I work in the law, it doesnt mean that I agree with it.

Blimey, a bloke could get paranoid around here!

[solentskipper]

Thanks Chaps
A most interesting discussion and no clear answer. I only asked the question as over the years ive bought many freeware routes and once loaded on my hard drive never used the discs again. not being able to sell them on unless i clear them from my hard drive to my mind seems a fair point . Now i got a full cd rack and was just wondering how to get rid of them without using a hammer !!! but i see that sticking them on e-bay at less than i paid for them would give some one the chance to copy and sell on or make a compilation which is not what i want at all. so for the time being as i said the feelings of the comunity are worth more than a few CDs ill bundle them up and sling in the garden shed . I like the idea of hanging on the fruit trees to scare birds only problem a distinct shortage of the required trees to use
thanks
solentskipper

[jimmyladd]

Blimey, a bloke could get paranoid around here!

I agree, and I do , and me!

[thenudehamster]

Skipper?
What do you do with those piles of AoL CDs that seem to arrive with every post? You could, if you were really intent on tossing the UKTS ones, do the same with them as with the AoLs.

Actually AoL used to be a handy source of free floppies in the old days; pity they don't use CD-RWs these days...

Jimmy - paranoia is nothing to do with multiple personalities; it's a persistent and irrational feeling of persecution, and a serious mental illness. Please, don't make fun of it.

[bravedan]

This is the simplest, most sensible, way of looking at this. If, for your £4.50, you have used the product purchased and then had a month's free membership with UKTS then surely you have had good value for money.

What is the point of selling on the product (for next to no gain) and risking alienating the hard working creators of the routes / stock / activities etc.

As the original quote implies...surely the "good of the community" is more important than a couple of quid ?????

AMEN................I'm alien enough already, don't upset me any more............

Dave