The Ffestiniog Railway and crossing the new bypass

[pitleyfalley]

But i don't think the WHR (C) aproach is very heritage.

Yes but heritage WHR involves a four hour train ride on a wooden seat with a little engine at the front having the nuts thrashed off of it.

... Not really what mr and mrs holiday maker want anymore.

Still about as Heritage then as Mountaineer, Linda Blanche, the Barns, Earl of Merioneth, and the deviation. Remember the FR wasnt in so different a position 30 years ago... Its only because what was modern then has become heritage now.

Chris

[Frsimplex1993]

No, i would love to sit on a wooden seat with a little engine at the front having the nuts thrashed off of it. That would be HEVAN! Then got to a better railway a.k.a Ffestiniog Railway and have another great train ride (hopefully barns or a heritage set). The FfR would make the pain of the last ride go away.

Mountaineer, Linda & Blanche would of been classed as heritage. And the Barns look heritage.

[RobertM]

To be honest, I quiet like the garrats, there somthing diffrent too be photogrpahed

RobertM

[MuzTrem]

Garrats don't photograph well IMHO, what with those blasted great lumps in fornt of the smokebox
I appreciate that it is a difficult balancing act for the FR to please everyone, but nevertheless I do feel a little saddened by just how commercialised the FR and the WHR(C) has become. My family and I visitied the FR once, and even my parents, who have no interest in railways, felt that the whole experience was cold, clinical and impersonal. Ok, we got pretty scenery, air-conditioned coaches, on-train buffet and steam haulage-but we could have had all that on a main line charter-the Jacobite for instance.
Wheras when we went to the WHR(P)-what a difference. Yes, it's a shorter railway. Yes, the engines don't work so hard. Yes, the scenery wasn't so fantastic. But everything about the place was warm and welcoming! I don't think I have walked away from any other railway feeling so impressed by how friendly the staff were. They even let me operate the ground signals at Pen-y-mount and gave me a short footplate ride on Russell in the Porthmadog headshunt! No offence to the FR's hard working volunteers, but we felt treated like customers in a shop-you buy your stuff and go, that's all there is to it. At the WHR(P) you could really tell that they did what they did as a labour of love, and their enthusiasm was infectious. And ok, there wasn't an on-train buffet service-so what? The restuarant at Porthamdog was excellent.
I haven't been to North Wales since 2004, and even that was only a day-trip-it's been four years since I had a proper holiday there. But when I do manage to go again, the WHR(P) will be very high on my list of priorities; I am sorry to say the Ffestiniog probably won't.

[Frsimplex1993]

Murray,
I'm sad to see that the Ffestiniog gave that impression but, and i'm glad that you think that highly of the WHR (P). I think if you want to see how good the FfR realy is go on the Talking Train or wait for the next Vintage Weekend then you'll be impressed. Though i think VERY highly of the FfR because i owe my life to it & i have the best time of my life there.
William.

[MuzTrem]

I'm not saying the FR is a bad railway beacuase it isn't. I'm just recounting truthfully the impression we got of it.

[Garthion]

The Garratts do photograph well, you just have to know which angle is best, see below


Click the image to zoom in

Click to enlarge

Regards the Bypass, it WILL be a bridge, but UNDER the FfR, so who pays for it?

And yes, the bypass is needed, to coin a phrase,

Builder to Arthur Dent: Why it's a Bypass, you've got to build Bypasses.

But then again, port is a nightmare in the high season.




Cheers,
Dale W (I love Garrats )

[RobertM]

They also make good footage+sound recordings, especilly when the engine sounds are echoing through the valley

RobertM

[Frsimplex1993]

I just don't want to see the place i owe my life to & love so mutch be Bankrupted and destroyed.

[Rfairlie]

if the council want a bypass then they will pay for the bridge otherwise itll never get built. and if it stops huge great lorrys going through the center of porthmadoc then its not a bad thing.

i dont like the whr because like a lot of things its a good idea but the implemtation leaves alot to be desired. take the 28,000 or whatever it is sleepers that are the wrong size or the butchering of harbour station that seems to be very impratical from my point of view, anyone whos walked to boston lodge before the new footpath was built on a rainy windy day will know that walking 1/4 of a mile up the platform to catch the train is not convinent. The FR locos dont get the maintence they need as it is when boston lodge becomes a base for garratts its not going to help the situation and the whole trailable points system worrys me as well when to 2 trains arrive a tan-y-grisiau at the same time it is scary. my view is that people on the FR have spent 50 years grafting away with very little money to get the line where it is today then along comes someone with 12 million pounds who says here have a nice new railway with nice new engines, some people will understandably get upset by this.

But at the end of the day its happening and theres not much i can do about it so ill put up with it and even support it if it helps the FR survive.

by the way robert i dont think the WHR(c) ever thought to them selves "what can we do thats intresting" they thought we need some cheap capable easy to maintain motive power and we need it soon lest think how to market it afterwards.

Im sorry to hear that you didnt enjoy the FR murry but at the end of the day if you want to play with the ground frame or ride on footplates volunteer. as a fireman i try to be freindly to everyone as much as possible even when ive heard the 9 millionth coal firing joke and i have to say the questions the genral public ask are far more intresting than the ones the trainspotters ask. it all depend on what you want from a railway.

Tim

[andrewtoplis]

Hi,
I think all this shows what a fine line railways have to tread in 2006. It is very difficult to avoid upsetting at least someone and preserved railway history is littered with people who have left after rows etc.

I dont mean to cause any offence with this but I am beginning to find WHR Garratts coming to dominate this forum...We can debate them ad infinitum, but could we move on please? Also, I completely agree with Tim's last paragraph.

Andy
Talk is cheap...Volunteer!

Dale- Thanks, I have just put that picture as my desktop background!
Murray- Its a sad reality that the friendliness of a line is in inverse proportion to its size.

[lindon19]

I just don't want to see the place i owe my life to & love so mutch be Bankrupted and destroyed.

I think we are being ever so slightly over dramatic here William (and please don’t take that the wrong way)
There are safeguards in place to ensure that should the worst ever happen at WHR C, it would not have a detrimental effect on the FR. I totally agree with you on most points (heritage etc) there are parts of the FR where you can escape from reality and convince yourself that its 1920, unfortunately it is not possible to do this anywhere on the WHR C. But on the other hand they do not claim to be a heritage railway as such, it’s the construction of a new railway that utilizes the trackbed of the former WHR. The confusion arises when they insist on calling it the WHR!
As for hospitality, well the last time I was at Dinas, I spoke to the driver of Castell Caernarfon and I must say he was one of the most friendliest individuals I have ever come across. He had plenty of time to answer my stupid questions that he had probably been asked a thousand times before. On the other hand, I remember trying to talk to a driver of a double at Tan Y Bwlch and he totally blanked me! I’m generalising here and maybe I shouldn’t!
I think there’s good and bad on all three railways.

[JonPotter]

The crews on the WHR (C) are very freindly. I remember seeing a family of 5 young children on the cab of 143 at Dinas - they even let one of them blow the whistle before the train left. COnsidering they must have been about 5 this is an achievement anyone who works on the line should be proud of - I sometimes get problems with lcoo drivers as they think I'm too young - and I'm nearly 16

Also I recall seeing plenty of people in the tender of Prince at Waunfawr when that was up there - again a good achievemnet. Well done WHR!

[Earl1]

The FR has got it made, and has no real problem.

If Leighton Buzzards Eastern distributor road is built it, the LBNGR must cross it on a bridge (near Shenly Hill road), this would be physically impossible to achieve without basically ripping the engines apart. If the road is built the line may well go under, or will have to be truncated.

[MuzTrem]

Im sorry to hear that you didnt enjoy the FR murry but at the end of the day if you want to play with the ground frame or ride on footplates volunteer.

Well ideally that's what I'd do, except that in my experience anyone under 18 isn't allowed to do anything more ambitious than coach cleaning on preserved railways. And my local line dosn't even use signals! (The trains are controlled by radio.)

as a fireman i try to be freindly to everyone as much as possible

Glad to hear it. Of course, I didn't say everyone on the FR was unfriendly-in fact most weren't really unfriendly as such, just impersonal. It's like the difference between the shop cashier who just handles your transaction and the one who asks if you've had a nice day, if you know what I mean.

the questions the genral public ask are far more intresting than the ones the trainspotters ask.

Well from my work in the ticket office I've got the opposite impression, although admittedly we don't get many enthusiasts at Ruislip Lido. Then again, I suppose that may just be because there are more chavs in Ruislip than Porthmadog... But chav or not, I try to be as courteous as I can, as I'm sure the FR's staff do. I think my earlier post gave the wrong impression-it was intended more as praise for the WHR(P) for going the extra mile rather than criticsm of the Festiniog.
Anway, I can see this leading to a flame war sooner or later so I'll say no more about it.