Mountaineer...................

davidaward · Post by **davidaward** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:32 pm

Rfairlie wrote:If i wanted a relaxing day on an engine i would fire on the Seven valley

Erm correction- The SVR is not an easy line to fire on, there is a lot of variation up and down the line, it is not all uphill one way and down the other, there are many different climbs in both directions, a light fire bouncing on the grate is needed with most loco so that they will still steam and not choke the fire, so it is hefty work all day.

Try firing Taw Valley on a summers day- that'll make you sweat just keeping the grate full!

Its all healthy banter i know- in the future one line I would like a bash on is the FR for comparison's sake!

Yep I know Ffestiniog is a difficult line to work, as are most long narrow gauge lines, locos are being worked to their full power, rare in preserved line circles, but a friend of mine who has been involved at FR for many years says some of the staff who have rarely worked with coal will not know what's hit them!

Earl1 · Post by **Earl1** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:42 pm

If i wanted a relaxing day on an engine i would fire on the Seven valley

Hmmm relaxing day=no hills=West Lancs.
Fun but hard day=W&L, WSR, FR & WHR (on Coal or Oil!!), SVR or NYMR.
Painfully tiring & hard day (for wrong reasons) LBNGR.

Frsimplex1993 · Post by **Frsimplex1993** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:43 pm

I wouldn't mind training on coal as there a less nobs but you have shoveling. Also i know a fair bit about coal like..... injectors, building a good fire & disposing the ash so it doesn't go every where! But there's still a LOT to learn. I think i'll start learning more rules soon, then i'll find it easyer when it comes to training in 4 years!

andrewtoplis · Post by **andrewtoplis** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:43 pm

Hi Guys...

Wow, a debate on real engines on a trainsim forum!

I dont think coal firing isnt that big a step for Ffestiniog firemen, these engines (even the NGG) dont have huge fireboxes after all. Coaling up wouldnt be a problem, just modify a forklift or something similar and do it with machinery. Are double Fairlies seperate fireboxes, with a water space in between or just metal? I can see firing being awkward just from the position the fireman stands in, but it would surely be a case of getting the knack? Firing is not all about shovelling coal though, there is much more to it than that, balancing water and steam levels, watching the road and operating injectors etc, which the Ffest men are already doing.

I would love a go on the Ffest sometime, it seems the engines are worked hard, unlike some other places as David points out. Just a bit of encouragement for Chris and Frsimplex1993, firing is a skill that comes from practice and experience, strength and technique will come with time, just keep trying! The trick is not to try to watch the coal as you throw it in, but be confident enough to stand up and trust where you have placed it. People compare it to having x-ray eyes to look through the backplate. Knowing how to throw coal is half the battle though, knowing when to throw it and when to put water in etc is the other half. It all comes with practice!!

Andy

andrewtoplis · Post by **andrewtoplis** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:44 pm

And its FUN too!!!!!

Earl1 · Post by **Earl1** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:54 pm

I'll vouch for that, knowing where you've put the coal without looking is part of the battle.

Frsimplex1993 · Post by **Frsimplex1993** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:31 pm

That's what i ment by 'building a good fire'.
William

selsig · Post by **selsig** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:43 pm

andrewtoplis wrote: Are double Fairlies seperate fireboxes, with a water space in between or just metal? I can see firing being awkward just from the position the fireman stands in, but it would surely be a case of getting the knack? Firing is not all about shovelling coal though, there is much more to it than that, balancing water and steam levels, watching the road and operating injectors etc, which the Ffest men are already doing.

Indeed, double engines have 2 fireboxes, and this is why when the fairlies were coal fired both injectors and one gauge glass were on the drivers side - there was so much to deal with with the fire that water was made the drivers responsibility. Merddin (and possibly also the Earl) retain this feature, so back conversion to Coal is not so difficult, but DLG was designed for Oil firing, and so has one injector each side, and one gaue glass each side, but more importantly, has a tapered boiler rather than a wagon top, and so has even less space on the footplate than ME and EoM.

John

Earl1 · Post by **Earl1** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:10 pm

I'd assume that DLG is more efficent than the other two though thanks to these qualities.
Are Fairlies Right hand or Left hand drive?

selsig · Post by **selsig** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:17 pm

Earl1 wrote:I'd assume that DLG is more efficent than the other two though thanks to these qualities.
Are Fairlies Right hand or Left hand drive?

All of the double fairlies are "engine" side drive, and Taliesin is "clock" side drive (since there is no left or right on a double ended locomotive). This equates to driver on the left when running uphill for the doubles, and on the right for Taliesin. All other main line singles (Linda, Blanche, Alco, Prince, Palmerston) are "engine" side drive, and Britomart and Lilla are IIRC "clock side" drive (but I could be wrong with these two)

John

Earl1 · Post by **Earl1** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:28 pm

Thanks

andrewtoplis · Post by **andrewtoplis** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 11:34 am

Hi John,

Injectors on both side shouldnt be a problem though, should it? Most engines have one on each side (without a boiler in the way!) and you just ask the other guy to put his jack on for a bit! We have one engine designed for single manning with BOTH jacks on the drivers side, despite them now being the fireman's job.

Do the double fairlies have seperate regulators, ie could you drive one bogie differently to the other? Seperate reversors too, or a linking mechanism?

(now very interested) Andy

Earl1 · Post by **Earl1** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 11:38 am

On the Beyer's at the W&L if you're busy it's ok to ask the driver to put the injector on, on his side, or at least open the water valve(by his feet).

I can see the point in having seperate regulators on double Fairlies, but am glad that they only seem to have one reverser, otherwise the inevitable will happen and the engine will pull itself into two.

andrewtoplis · Post by **andrewtoplis** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 11:48 am

Shades of Webb Compounds eh?

selsig · Post by **selsig** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:21 pm

andrewtoplis wrote:Hi John,

Injectors on both side shouldnt be a problem though, should it? Most engines have one on each side (without a boiler in the way!) and you just ask the other guy to put his jack on for a bit! We have one engine designed for single manning with BOTH jacks on the drivers side, despite them now being the fireman's job.

Do the double fairlies have seperate regulators, ie could you drive one bogie differently to the other? Seperate reversors too, or a linking mechanism?

(now very interested) Andy

The reason both injecors were on the drivers side was because with two seperate fires, each requiring major contortion to get coal into, there just wasn't time for the fireman to worry about water at all. He had a glass so he could glance at it and mumble something nasty across the footplate because the driver was concentrating on driving and not water, but he had no actual control over the water.

Double engines do indeed have two independant regulators, but placed in such a way that they can be operated simultaneously with one hand, but only one reversing lever with levers off in both directions.

Its not a great picture, but http://www.merddin-emrys.co.uk/Pages/Gallery.htm shows what I mean. The reverser lever is in the middle, with the twin regulators atop the boiler. The handwheel in front of the regulators is an early regulator fine tuning device that was dispensed with at later rebuilds

Cheers,

John