Mountaineer...................

[Earl1]

8 !!!!!!, even at only 10 tons a coach thats ripping the guts out of them, no wonder they break so easily.

Still with a more reasonable estimate at 8 tons a coach it is more sensible, and I doubt somewhat that FR coaches are on the whole this heavy. Sparks wouldn't fly everywhere, you just need an effective spark arrestor and a guard with a keen pair of eyes just in case.

At the moment, as long as they are safe, and know how to light the fire, anyone could fire at least a Double Fairlie. Linda & Blanche might be a bit harder but oilfiring has caused a serious dumbing down of the art of firing, and left an obvious lack of true coal firing skill. (no offense intended to any FR firemen)

[sparky123456]

If linda and Blanche were reduced to pulling 4 then surely, if they were to be used in summer, it could only be on a short ride-say a TYB shuttle. there is no way 4 coaches would have enough room for a trip to Blaenau.(Would this mean a new buffet car would be needed though )

Coal firing is very hard, I was having a go the other week, I was only on for about 1.5 mile uphill (about 5 mins), and I was knackered by the time we stopped!

Blanches motion has been scraping on the crossing at Penrhyn.

Some new rails needed there then, surely Blanche isnt that low!

I can't wait for The Earl to be coal fired, finally a proper smelling double fairlie! i think I recall someone saying that FR firemen used to lose shovels while firing doubles, because of the limited space on the footplate, and limited clearance, is this right?

Chris

[Earl1]

For a Double Fairlie all you'd need in terms of a Shovel would be a small domestic one with only a small handle.

[BruceB]

8 !!!!!!, even at only 10 tons a coach thats ripping the guts out of them, no wonder they break so easily.

Still with a more reasonable estimate at 8 tons a coach it is more sensible, and I doubt somewhat that FR coaches are on the whole this heavy. Sparks wouldn't fly everywhere, you just need an effective spark arrestor and a guard with a keen pair of eyes just in case.

At the moment, as long as they are safe, and know how to light the fire, anyone could fire at least a Double Fairlie. Linda & Blanche might be a bit harder but oilfiring has caused a serious dumbing down of the art of firing, and left an obvious lack of true coal firing skill. (no offense intended to any FR firemen)

Again, everyone is missing the point.

The reason Blanche and Linda will not be converted to Coal firing is insurance - the level of risk regarding these locomotives on the loads they are required to pull is unacceptable - no insurance company will offer us cover for such a high risk activity. The insurance company have recently agreed to the use of Palmerston with its new Spark Arrestor, thanks in part you’ll know doubt be glad to here to the WLLR.

However, Palmerston is limited to 5 cars, and so the risk is acceptable.

Earl1, I would be careful as you make far to many assumptions, firing a Double Farile is not easy in the slightest, particularly downhill when you have to produce enough steam to operate the vacuum ejector, but not too much as to blow off all the time (blowing off is one of the highest offences in FR firing circles!). You also have two fires to control not one, which I’m sure you’ll appreciate is twice the required effort.

Your notes on firing clearly show that you do not understand the FR. We have an intensive 3 train timetable, each train making 2 return trips a day. Timetabling is tight as we have connections to make at both Minffordd at Blaenau Ffestiniog. Our locomotives have to work hard and fast to meet the demands of our passengers – the FR is not like most narrow heritage railways – we are not about playing trains – we are about moving as many people as possible in the most efficient way possible.

Regarding comments about extinguishing fires; our railway runs through largely forestry land – therefore fires will spread very quickly and become uncontrollable, also much of the railway is on ledge above the forest, it simple isn’t possible to access everywhere to put fires out. In addition such delays to the timetable I mention would cause major problems.

Finally in on your comments regarding the reduction of skill for oil firing. I would be very careful indeed. Many fireman from other railways arrive at the FR thinking it will be “easyâ€

[Earl1]

Ok, then the answer as to will L&B run regularily in the future is no

[selsig]

Ok, then the answer as to will L&B run regularily in the future is no

I'm sorry, but I just can't see where you have got this assumption from. In the future the fairlies (all 4 of them), Palmerston, Britomart and Lilla (the latter three because they are already so fitted) will be coal fired. This is because it is uneconomic to run the larger engines on oil any more. Lind, Blanche and Mountaineer will remain oil fired, because they are *needed* to haul 8 car trains, and would not be capable of doing so with a coal fire, due to its relative consistancy compared to an oil fire, which can be changed as the circumstances arise to release just the right amount of power, and also because on 8 cars, not much of the coal fire would remain on the grate for very long.

The FR is not abandoning oil firing by any means, but is trying to reduce the oil bill, whilst keeping all of the locomotives in service.

If I were you, I'd be wondering whether the NGG16s were going to be back converted, rather than Linda and Blanche.

Cheers,

John

[Earl1]

NGG16's now there is a loco that would run well with coal, think about that grate area.

[BruceB]

NGG16's now there is a loco that would run well with coal, think about that grate area.

Serious thought is being given to this I understand, both on conventional and gas-producer systems.

Bruce

[Earl1]

Good to here that. With a grate that size, you can get a nice thin fire, quite clean and light on coal usage. Also the firebox on an NGG16 will probably lend itself to building a wedge shaped fire, important for the hard climb out of Beddgelert.

[davidaward]

[quote="BruceB"]Many fireman from other railways arrive at the FR thinking it will be “easyâ€

[Earl1]

Oh dear, disposing a double engine.
2 smokeboxes to clean, etc.

Coal and Oil running side by side will be interesting, especially with the changes to fueling arrangements, and the increased effort of coaling up at Porthmadog.

Also dealing with clinker could be a serious problem, as the long downhill with very little work is going to create some fun with people who haven't had to cope with the fire clinkering up before.

[Rfairlie]

The FR has more coal firemen than you might think dont forget the fr hasnt always run on oil. also coaling up will probaly take place at boston lodge halt where a new coal stage will hopefully be ready by easter. clinker hasnt really been a problem so far especilly with the quality of the coal at the moment of course the quality of coal wont always be the best.
i dont know why but certain people seem to be under the impression that the ffestioniog has never seen a lump of coal in it's life there has been alot of work done to see if coal fireing is feasable the decision wasnt just a spur of the moment one.

If i wanted a relaxing day on an engine i would fire on the Seven valley there arnt many preserved railways where an engine runs with both regulators in full main valve for 10 miles.

Tim

[davvydo]

ok so whats the easiest and hardest loco to fire then ?

[Earl1]

there arnt many preserved railways where an engine runs with both regulators in full main valve for 10 miles.

Ahhhh Steel on Brass

[Rfairlie]

i would say the DLG is the easiest it's way too powerful dosnt do any work untill you hang about 14 coaches of the back i try to avoid it at all costs its so boring and the wrong shape. I think the alco is probaly the most difficult getting to the next station with some water in the boiler is always a bonus it also has a tendency to prime alot as well which dosnt help. The square was particuarly awful in the summer you have to be really quick with it and theres twice as much to do, it would only hold the feed if you were extra nice to it. The double engines only run with about an inch of water in the glass so if your too slow to get the pressure back you'll be stopping for a blow up at the summit.

Tim