As a change from steam engines with outside cylinders and valve gear, I thought I would try an internal combustion loco, so I produced a bogie petrol electric. From a animation point of view it was very easy indeed - just the wheels, so I decided to try one of the 2' gauge diesels Bagnall produced during the 1930s - very much a diesel version of Monarch, with outside frames and coupling rods on 2 bogies - an articulated engine in fact.
Now I appreciate that anything with carrying wheels on its power bogies - like an NGG16, needs to be modelled as a train in its own right, but an 0-4-0 0-4-0 didn't seem to, as Kevin Martin's Fairlies and Tim Elsby's Monarch are not. I can get the loco properly animated in 3D Canvas, and in Shape File Viewer, but in the simulation proper, the rear bogie remains firmly frozen, and the coupling rods on the front one a rigidly fixed to the trailing crank pins. What can I do?
Simple Articulated Loco Problem
Moderator: Moderators
Shouldn't be much trouble - sounds like a heirarchy problem.
Treat the heirarchy as a bogie wagon:-
main
bogie1
wheels1
wheels2
bogie2
wheels3
wheels4
rods linked to wheels1, wheels3
I haven't tried such a layout myself but it should work. if not try rod01, rod02 for one set of driven wheels - there might be an internal bar in MSTS.
If you have one of the models you mention look at the .s file to see how the designers sorted the problem.
Mallets & articulated locos need to have two seperate units but I doubt a more simple loco should need this.
Treat the heirarchy as a bogie wagon:-
main
bogie1
wheels1
wheels2
bogie2
wheels3
wheels4
rods linked to wheels1, wheels3
I haven't tried such a layout myself but it should work. if not try rod01, rod02 for one set of driven wheels - there might be an internal bar in MSTS.
If you have one of the models you mention look at the .s file to see how the designers sorted the problem.
Mallets & articulated locos need to have two seperate units but I doubt a more simple loco should need this.
I'm pretty sure thats how I set up the Double Fairlie when made the model (over 4 years ago, now!).cua193 wrote:Shouldn't be much trouble - sounds like a heirarchy problem.
Treat the heirarchy as a bogie wagon:-
main
bogie1
wheels1
wheels2
bogie2
wheels3
wheels4
rods linked to wheels1, wheels3
I haven't tried such a layout myself but it should work. if not try rod01, rod02 for one set of driven wheels - there might be an internal bar in MSTS.
If you have one of the models you mention look at the .s file to see how the designers sorted the problem.
Mallets & articulated locos need to have two seperate units but I doubt a more simple loco should need this.
I'm sure the canvas pro trainsim wizard will not cope with this loco setup and you will have to animate the wheels and rods manually. Also, don't use the trainsim wizard to export the model for the first time. You will need to right-click on the "main" part and select the export to msts option.
Cheers,
Kevin
Thanks very much. It was a heirarchy problem - as a junior loco builder I hadn't come across one before.
I simply renamed the bogies, regrouped the superstucture and re-exported it (right clicking on an object directly in main). The good news is that the Decapod coupling rod animator did work and the whole thing runs like I had hoped it would. I'll make it look presentable and post a screenshot. The Ashanti Goldfield locos are a minority taste, and their UK baby sister spent its short life in mining service, but someone may take a fancy to it.
Thanks again.
I simply renamed the bogies, regrouped the superstucture and re-exported it (right clicking on an object directly in main). The good news is that the Decapod coupling rod animator did work and the whole thing runs like I had hoped it would. I'll make it look presentable and post a screenshot. The Ashanti Goldfield locos are a minority taste, and their UK baby sister spent its short life in mining service, but someone may take a fancy to it.
Thanks again.
-
mccormackpj
- Been on the forums for a while
- Posts: 270
- Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 4:16 pm
- Location: Zummerzet
Try these for a genuine steam / diesel articulated. Same chassis, different prime mover!
Hunslet took over the rights, drawings and goodwill from Avonside when they closed in the '30s (?) and used the chassis as the basis for their own articulated diesel design. All very sweet and dinky - these are the patent drawings, the real things were somewhat different.
The steam version has no visible motion other than the coupling rods and cranks. Once you've got the hang of that, you could convert it into a Simplex with inclined cylinder driving an intermediate shaft.
Good luck and be patient, whatever you do!
Patrick
Hunslet took over the rights, drawings and goodwill from Avonside when they closed in the '30s (?) and used the chassis as the basis for their own articulated diesel design. All very sweet and dinky - these are the patent drawings, the real things were somewhat different.
The steam version has no visible motion other than the coupling rods and cranks. Once you've got the hang of that, you could convert it into a Simplex with inclined cylinder driving an intermediate shaft.
Good luck and be patient, whatever you do!
Patrick
Patrick,
Believe it or not, the Avonsides are on my list of things to do - I think I have drawings of one of the steam engines - I can't remember whether it was the 2 or 4 cylinder version, and I was looking at the data on the diesel last night - it used the same Gardner engine as the Bagnall. The steam engines are basically Heislers as far as I can tell - I would have thought that you might see the motion - as on a Heisler.
Believe it or not, the Avonsides are on my list of things to do - I think I have drawings of one of the steam engines - I can't remember whether it was the 2 or 4 cylinder version, and I was looking at the data on the diesel last night - it used the same Gardner engine as the Bagnall. The steam engines are basically Heislers as far as I can tell - I would have thought that you might see the motion - as on a Heisler.
-
mccormackpj
- Been on the forums for a while
- Posts: 270
- Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 4:16 pm
- Location: Zummerzet
Well, the motion is all squirelled away under the boiler barrel and if you look in the section, there appears to be a casing around the crank, con rods and no doubt the eccentrics as well. Perilously close to a Sentinel steam waggon (& loco) with the enclosed oil bath (shades of OVS Bulleid).
The Avonside-design locos are mentioned in Don Townsley's book on Hunslet; p101 shows Hunslet W.No.2005 for S.Africa and you really can't see any of the motion.
On a Climax you can see the motion clearly as the cylinders are mounted conventionally, but higher up and inclined to drive onto the cross-shaft from which bevel gearing drives the longitudinal shafts to each bogie. The Heisler eliminated this set of bevel gears by driving the long. shaft directly and usually the power bogie drivers were linked using coupling rods rather than a further set of bevel gears on the second bogie axle. Thus the Heisler had three sets of gears to a Simplex's five.
Personally, I prefer outside frames for Heislers as I like outside cranks and the inside framed examples look a bit 'naked'. The Shays and Climaxes had something of the diseasel about there lower parts, except on the engine side of a Shay which was a pure delight of mechanical busy-ness!
But why not try one of these Antipodean centipedes:
For more Kiwi Krazies, go here: http://www.trainweb.org/nzgearedlocomotives/
Patrick
The Avonside-design locos are mentioned in Don Townsley's book on Hunslet; p101 shows Hunslet W.No.2005 for S.Africa and you really can't see any of the motion.
On a Climax you can see the motion clearly as the cylinders are mounted conventionally, but higher up and inclined to drive onto the cross-shaft from which bevel gearing drives the longitudinal shafts to each bogie. The Heisler eliminated this set of bevel gears by driving the long. shaft directly and usually the power bogie drivers were linked using coupling rods rather than a further set of bevel gears on the second bogie axle. Thus the Heisler had three sets of gears to a Simplex's five.
Personally, I prefer outside frames for Heislers as I like outside cranks and the inside framed examples look a bit 'naked'. The Shays and Climaxes had something of the diseasel about there lower parts, except on the engine side of a Shay which was a pure delight of mechanical busy-ness!
But why not try one of these Antipodean centipedes:
For more Kiwi Krazies, go here: http://www.trainweb.org/nzgearedlocomotives/
Patrick
Still a lot of stuff to do, but here is the loco in revenue earning service-
Click the image to zoom in
On consulting the drawing - 4 cylinder version, the motion is all enclosed, so there would be no moving parts to see.
Avonside produced their diesel version first - the steam engines were at least reported later in the technical press, 1931 as opposed to 1930, and were in all points bigger than the diesel
Click the image to zoom in
On consulting the drawing - 4 cylinder version, the motion is all enclosed, so there would be no moving parts to see.
Avonside produced their diesel version first - the steam engines were at least reported later in the technical press, 1931 as opposed to 1930, and were in all points bigger than the diesel
-
mccormackpj
- Been on the forums for a while
- Posts: 270
- Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 4:16 pm
- Location: Zummerzet
-
mccormackpj
- Been on the forums for a while
- Posts: 270
- Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 4:16 pm
- Location: Zummerzet