Hunslet "Kevin Martin": some problems with backwar

[steamystef]

Hello,

Sorry for my poor english. I had downloaded the two Hunslet and try some run with "Kevin Martin" on mys new narrow route "Evocation Haute Somme" But, at the and of the line, I try to place the engine on the other side of the train to run backwards. The engine start but after some meter they stop and rapidly runforwards with the main wheels and rods continuing backwards Why??
Is there some problems with this engines ??
It seems that I had the same problems with the 'Decauville' Engines!!

Is there anybody wich had the same problems or is there any solutions for ?

But without this, the engines are very great!

[sillyevan27]

Did you happen to have the sander OFF when that happened?
I've tried to run a train (w/ regulator at 100%) fowards sometimes and then I find myself sliding backwards faster and faster.
(Same thing happens sometimes when I'm reversing like that)

In your case (reversing) try to ease the regulator up to 10%-20% and have the sander ON. That will solve your slipping problem



Evan

[sp762]

Steamystef,

I've actually tried this a bunch of times, and never seen that one before. I'll try again.

Updated: OK, when I've been testing, I've been using Ruggas. They don't weigh very much, and consequently, cutting six loaded ruggas out of a rake and placing them in a siding doesn't take much effort.

Testing with a heavier train makes a big difference ~ earlier I remarked that there were some issues with the eng file especially in the area of power to weight ratio. The real thing weighs in at 16.25 tons fully dressed, and the model develops 1500kW - as I thought it should be comparable to Kev's Baldwin - however, WD503 weight is 86.25 tons, because Kev doesn't care too much about the eng file.... (No offence m80)

That means that working a heavy train up tight grades needs a lot of sand in forward gear, and, owing to the vagaries of MSTS, the Hunslet can't pull pussy backwards. (Actually, it can't pull more than a single loaded "D" wagon backwards.)

This is fixable, and just needs a few .eng file mods (I suspect) which I'll work on tonight.

Stefan, if you can tell me exactly what stock your are using, I'll try to duplicate your problem. Love to see some shots of your route too.

Cheers & Beers (and a Shandy)

[steamystef]

Hello everybody,

I thing that my explanation isn't so clear. The problem is running backward with the engine to go at the end of the train. So without any stock behind. At the end of the trip, I detach the engine go forward to leave the switch and than try to go backward. At this moment, the engine start slowly backwards, and after some meters, stop with wheels slipping, and start forwards continuing with wheels slipping Why...

I continue this evening to try a solution but ...

Many thanks for all

[sp762]

No that's definitely a new one on me. Are you using the 2x scale or 'truescale' version of the locomotive?

[kevmt]

Steamystef,
as I thought it should be comparable to Kev's Baldwin - however, WD503 weight is 86.25 tons, because Kev doesn't care too much about the eng file.... (No offence m80)

I'd better comment, since I seem to have been "dragged into this".

Too say I don't care much about .eng files is a little unfair. The fact is that I spent ages with my first model, Prince, trying to get it to work using the correct data. At the end of the day all I ended up with was a loco that would move at about 5 mph forwards and hardly any speed backwards. In the end I decided to released it with a modified std gauge .eng file and have tried to modify all other .eng files since to be relative to that.


Cheers
Kevin

[steamystef]

Hello,

The model I use is the 2x model.

This evening, I try the model on Talyllyn route and try the same operation.
bye

stéfan

[pitleyfalley]

Kevin,

Dont worry m8, your eng files are fine :d... I know how you feel from many hours spent trying to get the TR enignes to handle like TR engines!

Chris

[sp762]

Sorry Kev, I didn't mean anything by it... I guess I really am a pompous twit.

I have replicated the problem, and my immediate solution is to double the weight in the eng file.

I think that MSTS has difficulty with locos (and wagons) that don't weigh very much.

If you want to play a little more, this is an eng file I am experimenting with for ngWD302 - created using the eng file calculator from this site. If you want to use this with "Kevin Martin" - just cut and paste the different bits...

This actually seems to work very well - but it's early days yet. It certainly pulls six loaded tanks OK, forward and reverse.

________________________________________________________

Code: Select all

SIMISA@@@@@@@@@@JINX0D0t______
 
Wagon ( ngWD302
    Type ( Engine )
    WagonShape ( ngWD302.s )
    Size ( 1.62902m 2.70371m 6.14902m )
    CentreOfGravity ( 0m 0m 0m )
    Centre ( 0m 0m 0m )
    Mass       ( 30.84t )
    InertiaTensor ( Box(1.62902m 2.70371m 6.14902m) )
    Coupling (
        Type ( Chain )
        Spring (
            Stiffness ( 1e6N/m 2e6N/m )
            Damping ( 1e6N/m 1e6N/m )
            Break ( 3.2e6N 3.2e6N )
            r0 ( 20cm 40cm )
        )
    )
 
    Adheasion ( 0.5 0.80 0.293 0 )
    DerailRailHeight ( 4cm )
    DerailRailForce ( 240kN )
    DerailBufferForce ( 400kN )
    WheelRadius ( 0.23495m )
    NumWheels ( 1 )
    Friction (
        50N/m/s         1       -1mph       0       1
        5.1N/rad/s      1       -1rad/s     0       1
    )
    
    BrakeEquipmentType( "Vacuum_brake, Handbrake, Auxilary_reservoir" )
    BrakeSystemType( "Vacuum_single_pipe" )
    MaxBrakeForce( 12.80kN )
 
    MaxHandbrakeForce( 21.34kN )
    NumberOfHandbrakeLeverSteps ( 100 )
 
        MaxReleaseRate ( 10 )
        MaxApplicationRate ( 10 )
        MaxAuxilaryChargingRate ( 10 )
        BrakeCylinderPressureForMaxBrakeBrakeForce ( 21 )
    IntakePoint ( -2.54135 0.150849 FuelCoal )
    IntakePoint ( 1.786042 0.150849 FuelWater )
 
    Sound ( "380Eng.sms" )
    )
 
 
Engine ( ngWD302
    Effects
    Effects (
		SteamSpecialEffects
		(
			SafetyValvesFX
			(
				0 2.53807 0.598932
				0 1 0
				0.072565
			)
			StackFX
			(
				0 2.70388 1.59075
				0 1 0
				.151366
			)
			WhistleFX
			(
				0 2.6 0.510235
				0 1 0
				0.072565
			)
			CylindersFX
			(
				0.381 0.379171 1.88366
				0 0 1
				0.072565
			)
			CylindersFX
			(
				-0.381 0.379171 1.88366
				0 0 1
				0.072565
			)
		)
	)

 
    Wagon (ngWD302)
    IsTenderRequired ( 0.1 )
    Type ( Steam )
    MaxPower ( 231kW )
    MaxForce ( 6137lbf )
    MaxVelocity ( 36mph )
    WheelRadius ( 0.305m )
    Sanding ( 1e9mph )
    NumWheels ( 5 )
    BoilerLength ( 3.35m )
    BoilerVolume ( "66.79ft^3" )
    BoilerEffectivity ( 1.2 )
    DraftingEffect ( 0.95 )
    BoilerResponsiveness ( 1.05 )
    CoalBurnage ( 4.30lb/hp/h )
    MaxBoilerOutput ( 3690lb/h )
    NumCylinders ( 2 )
    CylinderStroke ( 12in )
    CylinderDiameter ( 9.50in )
    CylinderVolume ( "1.97ft^3" )
    CylinderEffectivity ( 1.4 )
    InjectorSizes ( 11mm 12mm )
    ExhaustLimit ( 4059lb/h )
    PrimingFactor ( 0.95 )
    BlastExponent ( 0.6 )
    MaxBoilerPressure ( 160psi )
    MaxFireMass ( 281lb )
    IdealFireMass ( 205lb )
    MaxWaterMass ( 143lb )
    SafetyValvesSteamUsage ( 1342lb/h )
    ShovelCoalMass ( 10lb )
    SmokeCombustion ( 1 )
    MaxTenderCoalMass ( 1680lb )
    MaxTenderWaterMass ( 3750lb )
    InjectorTypes( 0 1 )
    Injector1FeedrateMultiplierExhaust ( 1.15 )	
    Injector1FeedrateMultiplierLive	( 0.6 )
    Injector2FeedrateMultiplierExhaust ( 1.15 )	
    Injector2FeedrateMultiplierLive	( 0.6 )
    Injector1WaterValveVarience ( 0.25 )	
    Injector2WaterValveVarience ( 0.25 )	

    SuperHeater ( 1.00 )
    SteamSmokeUnitsPerPoundOfFuel( 1 )
    SteamMaxSmokeUnitsReleaseRate( 1 )
    MaxSteamHeatingPressure( 20 )
    SafetyValvePressureDifference( 7 )
    SteamGaugeGlassHeight( 4 )
    SteamFiremanMaxPossibleFiringRate (30000lb/h)
    BasicSteamUsage ( 20lb/h )
    BasicCoalUsage ( 110lb/h )
    InjectorLimits1 ( 50psi 0.6 1 )
    InjectorLimits2 ( 60psi 0 1 )
    CylinderCocksPowerEfficiency ( 0.9 )
    SteamCylinderCocksOperation ( Manual )
 
    VacuumBrakesSmallEjectorPowerRating ( 3.0 )
    VacuumBrakesMinBoilerPressureMaxVacuum ( 110 )
    VacuumBrakesSmallEjectorUsageRate ( 310 )
    VacuumBrakesLargeEjectorUsageRate ( 1000 )
    VacuumBrakesHasVacuumPump ( 0 )
 
    TrainBrakesControllerMaxReleaseRate ( 12 )
    TrainBrakesControllerMinSystemPressure ( 0 )
    TrainBrakesControllerMaxSystemPressure ( 21 )
 
    EngineBrakesControllerHasProportionalBrake ( 1 )
    EngineBrakesProportionalBrakeLag ( 0.9 )
 
    BrakesEngineBrakeType( "Vacuum_single_pipe"  )
    BrakesTrainBrakeType( "Vacuum_single_pipe" )
    BrakesEngineControllers( "Hand, Train" )
 
    SteamSmallestCutoff ( 8 )
    NumberOfDamperSteps ( 4 )
 
    RegulatorValveType ( Twin_port )
    RegulatorSecondValveStartPosition ( 0.5 )
    RegulatorPilotValveExponent ( 1.7 )
    RegulatorSecondValveExponent ( 1.7 )
    RegulatorPilotValveFullOpenning ( 0.3 )
    RegulatorMainValveInitialOpenning ( 0.4 )
 
    SteamBlowerEffectExponent ( 0.9 )
    SteamBlowerEfficiencyExponent ( 1.1 )
    SteamBlowerMaxSteamUsageRate( 500 ) comment( lbs/h )
    SteamBlowerMaxProportionOfBlastEffect ( 0.15 )
 
    SteamWaterScoopMinPickupSpeed( 25 ) comment( mph )
    SteamWaterScoopMaxPickupSpeed( 60 ) comment( mph )
    SteamWaterScoopResistance( 8500N )
    SteamWaterScoopMaxPickupRate ( 1000 )
 
    SteamSmokeUnitsPerPoundOfFuel ( 3.3 )

	CabView ( 380.cvf )
    HeadOut ( 0.557479 2.37744 -1.95072 )

        EngineControllers (

            Regulator ( 0 1 0.025 0
                NumNotches ( 0 )
            )
            Cutoff    ( -0.75 0.75 0.01 0
                NumNotches ( 0 )
            )
            Brake_Train ( 0 1 0.01 0.65
                NumNotches( 3
                    Notch( 0     1 TrainBrakesControllerReleaseStart )
                    Notch( 0.4   1 TrainBrakesControllerRunningStart )
                    Notch( 0.5   1 TrainBrakesControllerApplyStart )
                )
            )
            Brake_Hand ( 0 1 0.0125 0
                NumNotches ( 0 )
            )
            FireDoor ( 0 1 0.1 0
                NumNotches ( 0 )
            )
            Sanding( 0 1 0 )
            Blower ( 0 1 0.025 0.2
                NumNotches ( 0 )
            )
            HeatingTap ( 0 1 0.025 0
                NumNotches ( 0 )
            )
            Shovel ( 0 1 0.1 0
                NumNotches ( 0 )
            )
            DampersFront ( 0 1 0.1 1
                NumNotches ( 0 )
            )
            DampersBack ( 0 1 0.1 0
                NumNotches ( 0 )
            )
            Injector1Steam ( 0 1 0 )
            Injector2Steam ( 0 1 0 )
            Injector1Water ( 0 1 0.1 0
                NumNotches ( 0 )
            )
            Injector2Water ( 0 1 0.1 0
                NumNotches ( 0 )
            )
            CylinderCocks ( 0 1 1 )
            Whistle ( 0 1 0 )
            WaterScoop ( 0 1 0 )
            SmallEjectorOrCompressor( 0 1 1 )
            Headlights( 0 1 0 )
        )
 
    EngineVariables( 900 205 120 152 1.0 3750 1 350 1 0.85 )
	Sound ( "380Cab.sms" )
        Name ( "(ng)WD Hunslet no 302" )
    Description (
      "WDLR Hunslet 4-6-0T - this engine represents the third exam"+
	"ple built for WD service in France.\n\nNot originally named"+
	", I have chosen to represent a 'preserved' example - SWLR N"+
	"o 1 'BlackAdder. "

    )
    EngineOperatingProcedures (
        "To move forward\n"+
	"1.	Press the W key several times to move the Reverser to full Forward.\n"+
	"2.	Press the ; (SEMICOLON) key to release the train brakes.\n"+
	"3.	Press the D key to increase the Regulator setting.\n"+  
	"4.	As you accelerate, press the S key to slowly reduce the Reverser setting, then adjust the Regulator to maintain the desired speed.\n\n"+
	"To slow the train\n"+
	"1.	Press the A key to move the Regulator to a lower setting.\n"+
	"2.	Use the brakes to further reduce speed if desired.\n\n"+
	"To apply the train brakes\n"+
	"1.	Press the ' (APOSTROPHE) key to apply the train brakes.\n"+
	"2. To hold the brakes at their current setting, lower the brake lever until it's in its middle (Neutral) position, by pressing the ; (SEMICOLON) key.\n\n"+
	"To release the train brakes\n"+
	"1. Press  the ; (SEMICOLON) key to release the train brakes.\n"+
	"2. When the brakes are released, raise the brake lever until it's in its middle (Neutral) position, by pressing the ' (APOSTROPHE) key.\n\n"+
	"To back up\n"+
	"1.	Bring your train to a full stop.\n"+ 
	"2.	Press the S key several times to move the Reverser to the full Reverse position.\n"+
	"4.	Press the ; (SEMICOLON) key to release the brakes.\n"+
	"5.	Slowly advance the regulator (D key).\n\n"+
	"To load and unload passengers\n"+
	"1. Stop at a station.\n"+
	"2. Press the ENTER key.\n"+
	"3. Wait for the \"permission to depart\" whistle.\n"+
	"TIP: Use the Next Station driving aid (F10) to monitor loading and unloading.\n\n"+
	"To couple to a car or locomotive\n"+
	"1. Coast into the unit at a very slow speed, about 2 mph.\n"+
	"TIP: To use the Coupling view, press the 6 key.\n"+
	"2. Press F9 to open the Train Operations window.\n"+
	"3. If the icon for the unit you coupled to is red, the handbrake is on. Double-click the car to release the handbrake.\n"+
	"4. Close the Train Operations window.\n\n"+
	"To uncouple from a car or locomotive\n"+
	"1. Press F9 to open the Train Operations window.\n"+
	"2. Double-click a unit in the part of the train you want to uncouple from the locomotive, to set the handbrake.\n"+
	"3. Double-click the coupler between the units you want to uncouple and the rest of the train.\n"+
	"4. Close the Train Operations window.\n\n"+
	"Firing commands (Automatic Fireman OFF in Options screen)\n"+
	"To add coal to the firebox\n"+
	"1. Press the F key to open the Firebox door.\n"+
	"2. Press the R key to increase the shoveling rate.\n\n"+
	"To stop adding coal to the fire\n"+
	"1. Press SHIFT+R to decrease the shoveling rate.\n"+
	"2. Press SHIFT+F to close the firebox door.\n\n"+
	"To operate the blower\n"+
	"1.	Press the N key to increase the blower.\n"+
	"2. Press SHIFT+N to decrease the blower.\n\n"+
	"To operate the dampers\n"+
	"1.	Press the M key to open the dampers.\n"+
	"2. Press SHIFT+M to close the dampers.\n\n"+
	"To inject water into the boiler\n"+
	"1.	Press the I key to turn on the steam to Injector 1.\n"+
	"(You can also press the O key to turn on the steam to Injector 2.)\n"+
	"2.	Press the K key to increase the water flow to Injector 1.\n"+
	"(To increase the water flow to Injector 2, press the L key.)\n\n"+
	"To stop boiler water injection\n"+ 
	"1. Press the I key to turn off the steam to Injector 1.\n"+
	"2. Press the O key to turn off the steam to Injector 2."
	
    )
)

[steamystef]

Hi,

Well done! I try this eng file this evening and send back the report.

Stefan

[steamystef]

It's me again,

Here Are Some screenshots from my line in France with the Hunslet a the Decauville.
http://www.tuby.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1571

Try it!

The line will be available soon

stéfan

PS: Feel free to correct my english, thanks

[kevmt]

Sorry Kev, I didn't mean anything by it... I guess I really am a pompous twit.

[/code]

No offence taken.

Cheers
Kevin

[jdtech]

We need a login for the forum of that url. It is all in french

[steamystef]

Hum,

Sorry, I forgot this. I try to place some pictures available somewhere.

Stéfan

[rwaceyw]

If you send the pics to my email..i'll put them i n my atomic album and post them for you.