I think the idea for a WWI trenches route is GREAT!
...although I'm mainly a TtTE fan ...
I'd like to help if I can. It's Narrow Gauge, right?
I could help make some rollingstock, like flatcars, tank cars, and boxcars
That's pretty much all I can do (for now) to help if you guys want me to help.
I'd get the route if it gets made.
So what do you guys need again? I'm willing to help.
"It's better to give than to receive.......but you need to receive in order to give!"
Thanks guys. I have started on the route. Some of it already goes to about -7.000000 underground. I am at the moment taking it up to the surface. I don't think they ran 'underground' as such, but stayed on top.
Paul Bardill
Volunteer Guard, Fireman and general tea boy at the Midland Railway Butterley
I'm really quite curious to see your research on this one. The whole point of the WDLR was that no massive engineering works were carried out - if the land went up and down, so did the track - and this was eased by the short track sections used.
I'm not sure about the copyright issues here - but this photo clearly shows the very rough nature of the track - other photos at the AWM show the degree of variance in gradient over the length of a wagon.
So if you've got engineering works at 7 m below Sea level - you're probably doing it wrong.
Now if this sounds rude - please consider that what you're doing needs some fairly delicate sensibilities applied to it. Thousands of people died on the Somme, and unless you take very great care with the presentation of this route you are certain to offend people.
Buy a map of Northern France - or at least look at one.
Don't do a half-arsed job.
If you can manage these things, I'll help you out - on the other hand if you just want to produce something naff for laughs then you shouldn't count on me uploading any more WD stuff.
Most people in Britain, France, America, Australia, and Germany (and other places) are related to someone who died during WW1.
Couple of years back I made a visit to Northern France and saw many battlefieds and graveyards, it is a very moving experice. There are books of people who died/or missing in battle. I'm releted to a sapper in the Royal Engeeneers - the people who built the WDLRlys.
Therefore like mike, I agree this is a sensitive area.
Your right. I'm going too quick into this. I'll watch Salvage Squad again, get a book about it, and look at your website. It's good so far despite that, and it's not gone far, so i can take it up to the surface.
P.S
As i was placing track, i came to a bit of land i had not seen before. What suprised me was the face it had been dug down into. I had not even been to this part, letalone using it. Any ideas what happened?
P.P.S
Your advice did not sound rude at all by the way. It's woken me up in a way.
Paul Bardill
Volunteer Guard, Fireman and general tea boy at the Midland Railway Butterley
My grandfather worked at Wolverton Works for many years and during WW1 he was sent to France to work on the railways.
Used to tell me about it as a kid.
He passed away some time ago though.
If anyone's serious about this Blethley Park has links to organisations and a friend produces drawings of WW1 loco's.
I havn't seen him for a while but he's local and one of the trustees who is also a FR driver see's him regularly
I'll ask around and see what's available but I've a feeling it will be quite a challenge to build a route accurately portraying the 'front line' in France during WW1 as it was a grim, muddy and bleak place where men drowned falling off makeshift walkways across shell craters.
The photo's I've seen show it to be much worse than the photo that Mike has posted and that would've been a good day.
As with all wars .... average or bad days didn't get published.
I've never even seen a 'real' model depicting this subject although that doesn't mean there hasn't been any
The chap who has done the really nice L&B stuff in SM32 is now doing WWI - can't remember his name, but it was in RM last year.
It would be very difficult to get it accurately nasty - but then this is a sim, and not a horror movie. My point was, and is that because we're trying to recreate something that is very historically significant - we should take pains to make it as accurate as possible within a G rating.
I don't want to model dismembered corpses stacked like cordwood. This would be the Pinewood as opposed to the Spielberg version.
sp762 wrote:I don't want to model dismembered corpses stacked like cordwood. This would be the Pinewood as opposed to the Spielberg version.
Mike
I can't see anyone wanting that.
As they existed only to move munitions and troops under awful conditions in a time of war, that side of things is not easily set aside in the minds of many.
Just a couple of notes on what I thought such a route would look like - lets get the thread back on track!
It need not be very big - 16 RGE squares would probably suffice.
The Eastern side would be green and relatively unspoiled - and would represent 'behind the lines'. Items of railway interest would include the Standard Gauge Exchange Sidings (including Dean Goods and foreign stuff).
You could also represent a Forestry camp using an ng tramway - this would exchange with the ng Main Line at a sawmill, and would provide sawn timber loads, prepared duckboards and pit props. Such a tramway would probably be operated by small PE locos and horses, and would use the rugga wagons I have already made.
Buildings and civilian infrastructure are mostly intact, trees and ground textures are verdant. You could build an airfield. A large chateau is used as Divisional HQ. A large Hospital is connected to the Standard Gauge and Narrow Gauge here.
The central section of the grid would represent the 'rear echelons'. Here would be found the training trenches, Brigade and Regimental HQ and stores dumps. You could also represent the Regimental Aid Post (RAP) - a bit like a MASH unit. The ng 'Main Line' runs NE-SW, and central to it is the area yard, which sees a high volume of traffic. At the Northern and Southern extremities, exchange yards transfer loads between army groups.
The main line is a well-engineered single track (except through the main yard, where it is doubled. Passing loops are provided every mile or so, and these act as block points - there is no signalling, and blocks are controlled by written order (permissive block working). Having said that, it was not unusual to have several trains in the section at once, so long as they are all heading the same way! Speed limit 15-20mph.
The Australian 5th LROC's main yard had 15 roads, plus a workshop and MPD, and during the buildup for the last battle of the Somme handled 80,000 car loads per day- it was known as 'Hellfire Corner'.
Most of the wagons would transport ammunition, then rations and construction materials such as timber, concrete and barbed wire. Troops and field guns were also tranported by rail. Ballast and tracklaying parties would also be common sights.
Troops and wounded go the other way, as well as salvaged material for reclamation.
Within this yard, traffic is broken up into cuts for various units - these are usually taken on by PE Tractors - often double- or triple-headed. But behind the lines, steam is King!
Some buildings are still intact and some trees are likewise flourishing, with patches of grass (and poppies in season) to be seen between the trench lines.
Several branch lines leave the main line along the route, and these head eastward, toward the front line. Exclusively worked by tractors (less likely to get shot at.) This track is much more roughly laid - 10 mph a very good speed! These branch lines parallel and cross over the communications trenches, and may pass through ruined buildings. they go around or over rather than through scenic features. Assume a max grade of 1 in 10. Think about avoiding views - remember, if you can see the Hun, he can shoot you!
Sidings act as stores dumps for company HQ, and as refuges to let trains pass. These sidings are also the site of emergency dressing stations, where triage is carried out on wounded soldiers before their evacuation.
Trains here would rarely be more than 8 D wagons long.
Buildings, as noted before, are ruined. Trees are dead, blackened and shattered by shell fire, as they provide roosts for snipers and artillery spotters. Lots of OE Dirt required here... instead, the features would consist of gun emplacements, shell craters bunkers and barbed wire entaglements.
"...a sad land, weak with sweats of dearth,
Grey, cratered like the moon with hollow woe,
And pitted with great pocks and scabs of plagues."
- Wilfred Owen, from 'The Show'
Well, I hope that helps your planning - if you don't do this, I probably will.
I think the idea for a WWI trenches route is GREAT! 
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