Withdrawn 1.7.xxxxxx

[GeoffreyHansen]

I have found MSTS Bin to be beneficial but I'm having the problem of the brakes not working when I press the apostrophe key.

[docmartin]

I think George has done a fantastic job. I have been running version 1.7.022420 without any apparent problems, though I admit I am not at all conversant with the physics of locomotives so may be missing something. One thing I have noticed, though, with this version of the patch compared to earlier versions is that if you are driving in external view, when you enter a tunnel the view doesn't switch to the cab but scoots over the terrain.

[jbilton]

I think George has done a fantastic job. I have been running version 1.7.022420 without any apparent problems, though I admit I am not at all conversant with the physics of locomotives so may be missing something. One thing I have noticed, though, with this version of the patch compared to earlier versions is that if you are driving in external view, when you enter a tunnel the view doesn't switch to the cab but scoots over the terrain.

Hi Doc
The camera has been like that since 1.5.7
"External cam correction, disabling of cam switching in tunnel, alerter improvement "

http://mstsbin.uktrainsim.com/eng/eng.html

Cheers
Jon

[docmartin]

Hi Jon,

I've just been over to George's site and I see what you mean. I had kind of got used to being forced into the cab when entering a tunnel - it seems logical to me but I suppose it's a matter of taste whether you prefer to stick with the cam view you are in or not. Anyway, I am totally impressed with George's to-do list! I'm greatly looking forward to the next version of the patch.

[abclare]

Hi, As a matter of interest what is Georges Site is it MSTSbin??

Art.

[PaulH2]

Hi, As a matter of interest what is Georges Site is it MSTSbin??

Art.

See two posts up, it is http://mstsbin.uktrainsim.com/eng/eng.html

Paul

[jbilton]

Hi Ian, There is a new patch being tested at the moment that as all the great things from V1.7.0512 in it without affecting the Physics
Watch this space

Regards

Ron P

Hi Ron
Thats not quite what's being written on George's board now.
There's a self appointed team of Americans testing for George.
Lets hope there are two patches, I don't want to have to mess around with all my locos, because I don't personally run American stock.
Does anyone know who the European tester is ??
Cheers
Jon


The Bin test teams first and foremost job is to test each new patch for bugs or items that no longer function properly. We have experts in every field of MSTS including power, traction, adhesion, friction, braking systems, steam, electric, RW vr based operations, activities rollingstock charecteristics. We look to see how each patch will effect the above listing. We then will send George a detailed report of our findings. If bugs do appear then George will be able to talk one on one with the expert in that field to discuss a possible plan to fix it. We will pretty much leave new feature up to George to work on but will assist with implementation if needed. We have no agenda other then to give George's patches a fair good working over and a report back that is useful to George for making changes. It is our goal that every patch released from here on out be a stable release as George will know each and every area that needs addressing.

reaguje:25. 5. 2007 (22:19) X It is hoped that the "Bin Test Team" is also considering the physics which apply to European rolling stock, which are somewhat different to those in the USA !

reaguje:26. 5. 2007 (05:35) X What the test team is checking first is that what we already have still works as it did before. Most regions of the world have worked out values for their respective rolling stock that attempts to give an accurate representation of the "usage" and "practices" in their region of the world. So, if a Bin change affects how braking is calculated in a way that makes existing MSTS values for North American rolling stock work incorrectly, it almost certainly would affect existing MSTS values for European or South African or Australian rolling stock in a similar manner.

reaguje:26. 5. 2007 (17:25) X And there is at least one european member on the team who will check things from that angle.

reaguje:27. 5. 2007 (19:06) X I don't understand where is the problem with "physics", a train is a train and physic laws are the same everywhere around this planet.

There are differences between dimensions, coupling, length of trains but the basic principles are the same. Even brakes are not so different from MSTS point of view, only different values for Application and Release rate, Brake force... this only need a different value on single line. The big challenge could be Vacuum brake, but this is also easy to set...

JLC

[gallop3ta]

Not sure what you are on about here John.
For starters 99% of downloadable UK stock from here has got a US brake system complete with emergency reservoirs.

The only stock as far as I know that comes close to real UK standards is the stock in the making tracks packs which are running a true 70psi brakepipe,
110psi main reservoir but is still running with an emergency reservoir reset to 70psi, unlike our Aussie stock which has had the emergency reservoirs removed with no problems at all.
The problems with the latest bin patch actually had nothing to do with braking.

The problem lies in the num wheels statement being altered in the patch and causing wheelslip in both traction and dyno braking.
Once these settings are set back to the default values ALL stock will be functional.
It is with steam locos that are causing the biggest grief with barely any traction at all.

Somehow I think that you have got the wrong idea canning the boys over in the US, due to a few posts being deleted due to one person not liking
to hear the truth.

So sit back and relax.
I'm sure bin 1.8 or whatever it will be called is not far away.
Cheers
Ian

[jbilton]

Hi Iain
As you say I don't think any brakes were effected.
To be honest I'm an oik when it comes to brakes, so long as the train stops in a fairly prototypical length I'm happy.
Something that would be nice is vacuum brakes on diesels, but I don't think even George can do that.
My only concern is the patch will become less usable for those of us that have our physics setup European style.
I've struggled to find any locomotive to slip excessively.
And with the lack of posts on here,either means no one is using the bin patch (which we know they are), or no one is having problems.
Our two biggest steam eng gurus have yet to post
I still think one of the biggest mistakes is to base any calculations on one big wheel.
I've also never prescribed to the idea of altering friction values to get wheelslip.
Cheers
Jon

[supergoods]

Steam Locomotive Adhesion

http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewtopic.php?t=62800

This thread discusses steam loco adhesion which because of the difference in adhesive weight to total weight must be treated differently to get results.

The wheel size which is a variable from 3 ft up to 8 ft or more in diameter also causes variations.

Most diesels are total adhesion machines so a much more standardised formula does work, I know there are some A1A A1A types but basically number of wheels has a direct relationship.

We do not "mess" with the parameters to get cosmetic slipping, but rather to simulate the conditions in which a given steam loco could slip.

Brakes are another area where the programming is different for steam, diesel and electric and for air and vacuum, hence the difficulties on applying vacuum to a diesel and air to a steam loco.

All this demonstrates a need to have a bin version that does not interfere with any part of the operation of steam except the cosmetic.

Ian

[ronald parkin]

Hi Jon, George has got is own team of tester that he has been using all the time and I am sure that they will be testing the latest and any future Bins that come out, I think that the last thing we need is separate Bin Patches
for separate communities.

Regards

Ron P

[supergoods]

Hi Jon, George has got is own team of tester that he has been using all the time and I am sure that they will be testing the latest and any future Bins that come out, I think that the last thing we need is separate Bin Patches
for separate communities.

Regards

Ron P :)

Without the exclusion of steam physics and associated issues, the bin patch is totally useless to me

If it suits you as it is, fine

Do not exclude what you don't care about, others here do care about things working correctly, not just cosmetically.

If George is reading all this I would hate for him to be lulled into the general acceptance of a one size fits all bin patch.

Ian

[ronald parkin]

Ian, It's only a game kid not the be all and end all of playing on a Computer. I also enjoy a nice game of Snooker (Pool)and I have a nice Fishing game.

Regards

Ron P

[supergoods]

Ian, It's only a game kid not the be all and end all of playing on a Computer. I also enjoy a nice game of Snooker (Pool)and I have a nice Fishing game. :D

Regards

Ron P :)

MSTS is a hybrid, it is a simulation to some and a game to others, the game players are entitled to their views of what is needed, but not to the exclusion of all other views which is what is happening on George's excellent work.

Ian

[ronald parkin]

Hi Ian, It will never be a Simulator because it as not got a good enough game engine ,Now the new MSTS--X that will have a good enough Game Engine to make it a proper Simulator if and that's a big IF it ever sees the light of day.

By

Ron P