Withdrawn 1.7.xxxxxx

[gallop3ta]

Sorry to correct you Phil but an emergency reservoir is an additional reservoir attached to the auxilary reservoir and triple valve which aids in both application and release.
In the UK and Australia the old setup of triple valve and auxilary on their own exists.
Apparently some of the very newer equipment has a relay valve as well to aid in charging the auxiliaries.
Not familiar with how they operate as I took a retiement package back in 1992.

In fact the system we use today in UK and Australia was banned in the US way back in 1927.
Westinghouse then sold all the equipment to us bunnies and made a fortune
on both sides of the pond

For an explanation on how the emegency reservoir works Al Krug has a wonderful tutorial which I'm sure is linked at ts.com.
Cheers
Ian
ps It is actually 72.5 and not 70psi due to metrification standards.
You lot over there use bar while we use kilopascals.

[ronald parkin]

Hi Ian,Could not agree more, at this point without re-installing the last stable patch I cannot even remember what was in it George has done a great job and as soon as we get over this little hiccup ( after all it was only a beta testing ) We can only look forward to even better thing

Regards

Ron P

[jbilton]

Hi
Al Krug's site

http://www.alkrug.vcn.com/home.html

I can't comment on whether George is changing the bin patch or not.
I really think he does what he wants to see,and then shares it with everyone else.
I don't think he actually tests steam locos, because his interests lie elsewhere.....but if he did hopefully he would base these tests on a default steam loco.
I hope he doesn't change the patch to accommodate any locos with altered physics... because I think this might through out hundreds that do work correctly.
Happy to be proved wrong.
I don't edit steam locos much, but I always read the threads with interest.
Personally I still think if you don't setup the wagon section correctly, all the following parameters are flawed.
Cheers
Jon

[kevarc]

Hi
Al Krug's site

http://www.alkrug.vcn.com/home.html

I can't comment on whether George is changing the bin patch or not.
I really think he does what he wants to see,and then shares it with everyone else.
I don't think he actually tests steam locos, because his interests lie elsewhere.....but if he did hopefully he would base these tests on a default steam loco.
I hope he doesn't change the patch to accommodate any locos with altered physics... because I think this might through out hundreds that do work correctly.
Happy to be proved wrong.
I don't edit steam locos much, but I always read the threads with interest.
Personally I still think if you don't setup the wagon section correctly, all the following parameters are flawed.
Cheers
Jon

I hope you are wrong. Many of us CHANGED the physics to go with bin. But then, what is a few thousand compared to your hundreds.

[jbilton]

Hi
Al Krug's site

http://www.alkrug.vcn.com/home.html

I can't comment on whether George is changing the bin patch or not.
I really think he does what he wants to see,and then shares it with everyone else.
I don't think he actually tests steam locos, because his interests lie elsewhere.....but if he did hopefully he would base these tests on a default steam loco.
I hope he doesn't change the patch to accommodate any locos with altered physics... because I think this might through out hundreds that do work correctly.
Happy to be proved wrong.
I don't edit steam locos much, but I always read the threads with interest.
Personally I still think if you don't setup the wagon section correctly, all the following parameters are flawed.
Cheers
Jon

I hope you are wrong. Many of us CHANGED the physics to go with bin. But then, what is a few thousand compared to your hundreds.

Hi Kev
There's no problem if you changed locos to work with the Bin patch.....it only effects locos that were previously edited to simulate slip under standard msts.
A lot of these were done by altering the adhesion and friction parameters, personally I've never prescribed to this method.
This week I've setup a few Bo-Bos and with prototype figures set in correctly,and they seem to perform correctly.
I doubt even George can make a patch which can make an eng which has had its adhesion settings lowered,perform as one that has default settings.
Happy to be proved wrong.
As to the amount of eng files, I think its only mainly the USA that alter theirs.
Cheers
Jon

[bdy26]

it strikes me that the last bin patch works fine if basic amends are made to eng files - hope it is back soon, I didn't get chance to download it. What this does show is that MSTS has fundamental flaws that should have been picked up many years ago, certainly in MSTS2, The community quite rightly came up with its solutions, and now George (and the man is an absolute hero in my book) has done what MS failed to do, which has lead to this! I hope there is a fix to this that maybe reverts to old physics settings, as I would love the AI sound triggers.

Thanks George, it's all really appreciated.

[supergoods]

As to the amount of eng files, I think its only mainly the USA that alter theirs.
Jon

This is a quite amazing and uninformed statement.

I may happen to live in the United States, however all my posting is here and my interests are in UK and Australia/New Zealand, but always in steam as I knew it.

I can understand why a diesel operator would loose interest in the driving part of the sim, however steam is very different to either diesel or electric and if properly done can provide a challenging drive that has no need of activities. (sorry Kev)

I draw from an exchange of views withinterested parties around the world, we may not always agree but we do look to obtain the most realistic performance.

I understand the desires to have opening doors, changing cabs and all the other toys that George's examination of the basic program has revealed, all I ask is the option to use the improved file management on its own as already there are routes that will not work without it.

Rest assured that it has already been proven that steam, diesel and electric are very different and one size does not fit all.

A vocal majority forcing a particular view of the world on George will do nothing to maintain the long term use of the simulator.

This post was made with several edits and a phone call to Australia to avoid a lifetime ban if I said what I really thought about what I see happening.

Ian

[gallop3ta]

Was good to hear from you this morning Ian.
After testing a variety of consists the Diesel locos, Steam and Electrics were definately written by 3 different people as they are all so different in the way certain parameters work.

Not sure whether George realises this so will post on his page for ideas on his site.
It looks like the default coding for wheelslip is averaged somewhere about the middle averaging between the optimum settings for each type.

For me it's back to 1.6 until the wheelslip is adjusted back to where it was.
There has been too much stock produced over the last few years with real world physics which has been up until now the biggest improvement in the whole simulation experience.
I would also hate to see the people like Supergoods, and many more like him to have wasted 5 years of precious time to get to the stage we are at now in both the brake and physics.
I owe him bigtime for all the help he has given in getting the correct coal,water and steaming capabilities for steam locos which have worked out brilliantly.
Thanks to all that have contributed to the betterment of MSTS the simulator that they thought wouldn't sell because of the bugs.
They are too numerous to mention individually , but we are all indebted to them as well as George for the knowledge that has been put into this hobby.
Cheers
Ian


George is on a winner with the multi unit sounds.
I'm going to miss them real bad.
If a compromise can be made on the wheelslip issue it will end up beyond our wildest dreams.

[BobLatimer]

I think it's all good news guys. If I understand the posts on George's site correctly, he is planning to revise the latest patch to take out the physics changes, which means we still get the multi-unit sounds plus the smoking static locos but without the wheelslip problem. He then intends to consult and come up with physics changes that everyone can live with.

[jbilton]

As to the amount of eng files, I think its only mainly the USA that alter theirs.
Jon

This is a quite amazing and uninformed statement.


A vocal majority forcing a particular view of the world on George will do nothing to maintain the long term use of the simulator.

Ian

How so........I download stock from all over the world........the only stock,and routes I don't run much is USA.
I'm not having the problems others are reporting.
I have probably a thousand or more locomotives in my collection.
Most of my steam locomotives have physics by Rick Gibb or 'Tinsley' I believe.
My D/E are more difficult to assess , because I edit nearly every one.

The second line is exactly why I must speak out, for the hundreds of people who haven't messed with their physics.

But I'm more than happy if Bob is correct, and George can make the patch work for everyone.

Cheers
Jon

[jbilton]

it strikes me that the last bin patch works fine if basic amends are made to eng files - hope it is back soon, I didn't get chance to download it. What this does show is that MSTS has fundamental flaws that should have been picked up many years ago, certainly in MSTS2, The community quite rightly came up with its solutions, and now George (and the man is an absolute hero in my book) has done what MS failed to do, which has lead to this! I hope there is a fix to this that maybe reverts to old physics settings, as I would love the AI sound triggers.

Thanks George, it's all really appreciated.

http://www.activitysimulatorworld.net/Patch_MSTS.htm

Still available.

Cheers
Jon

[ronald parkin]

Hi Jon,Absolutely spot on, I have seen what George as said and I hope he can pull the Physics out without affecting the rest of what up to now is one of the best Bins Patchs out,then people who enjoy tweaking and want to obtain
authentic realism in the game, can do so to there hearts content Without affecting my enjoyment

Regards

Ron P

[daveyp]

Hi.

I have to admit i couldnt get the EB 89001 running at all with the latest patch, so i am watching it all with interest, as i enjoy driving all types.

I hope George does put out the patch without the physics changes and then consults.

Who knows what will happen then, it could make this old sim into a world beater...!!!


David

[supergoods]

I hope George does put out the patch without the physics changes and then consults.

Who knows what will happen then, it could make this old sim into a world beater...!!!

This is all I ask for is a bin file with features that do not require changes to existing physics files to be useful.

I appreciate that a more complete set of corrective patches may make the sim cosmetically better, however there still remains a sizable minority who have made the sim work for their purposes by using modified .eng and .wag file which we do not wish to change for a one size fits all configuration.

Modifications vary from person to person as sometimes groups of alterations can achieve the same result and either is perfectly acceptable.

In summary:

One bin file for the cosmetic majority and a seperate bin file for the enhancers who are usually long term users and may be around for much longer than some of the newbies.

This is not to critisize Georges work, but rather to give him a better understanding of why the minority is so upset over this.

Ian

[Jontan]

When opening or closing cylinder cocks on steamers MSTS freezes with MSTSPatch1.7.050523. So now I have to keep running with cocks open.

George, could you fix that please?

/Jonatan