Opening the safety valves

[ntanswell]

Hi,

I am no expert with steam engines, my prime interest is diesel. Recently however I have been driving and firing steam trains (mainly the WSR Manor and the ELR 9F), and I have really enjoyed it. After just coming back from the Gloswarks, having spent the day riding behind "Kinlet Hall" and observing the engine carefully I have noticed that unlike MSTS, the engine didn't blow off throughout the day, however at on occasions I noticed the fireman had opened the safety valve a bit, probably to control the boiler pressure. I am quite frustrated about not being able to get rid of excess steam in MSTS, so far I have just been smothering the fire with coal, resulting it black smoke. I also noticed today that a bit too much steam seemed to be coming out of the engine on the sim when the regulator is on zero, compared to the real thing. Another annoying thing I have experienced on MSTS with the Swanage M7 is that the smoke is always black no matter what I do . I don't know if this is realistic for the engine, however from what I have read on the internet, black smoke means the engine is not burning the coal efficiently. Any help would be very much appreciated.


Nathan


P.S Is there way to translate the "Small Ejector" braking system on the WSR Manor to other locos.

[chrisj94]

You cant open the safety valves manually.
You dont really want to get rid of steam,if the valves lift,you want to get the injectors on and get the pressure down before you lose all your hard work building up the fire

Chris

[supergoods]

Nathan,

Welcome to the wonderful world of the .eng file.

There were a lot of errors in the default scotsman and many modelers still use derivatives of the default scotsman as the basis for their physics.

To really give a good result, you will need to have the .eng file in front of you however to answer your post I have copied the post and will try to answer point by point.


I am no expert with steam engines, my prime interest is diesel. Recently however I have been driving and firing steam trains (mainly the WSR Manor and the ELR 9F), and I have really enjoyed it. After just coming back from the Gloswarks, having spent the day riding behind "Kinlet Hall" and observing the engine carefully I have noticed that unlike MSTS, the engine didn't blow off throughout the day.

This is a common fault in MSTS as the locomotives do not consume sufficient water and coal, its fairly complex to calculate the correct values that will make the loco steam raising and steam consumption come more into balance. The best approach would be to take a similar sized loco from the Severn Vally stud if you have it, or one that you have and which does not have the problem and compare the .eng file with the one that came with the M7. One thing to bear in mind is that some of the parameters are interdependent

however at on occasions I noticed the fireman had opened the safety valve a bit, probably to control the boiler pressure.

The safety valve is automatic and its operation is deliberately out of the contril of the fireman, you can find the SafetyValvesSteamUsage Parameter and increase this value.

I am quite frustrated about not being able to get rid of excess steam in MSTS, so far I have just been smothering the fire with coal, resulting it black smoke.

Putting more coal on the fire than you need will reult in black smoke, however there is a parameter in the .eng file which has an error in it, this reads in the default scotsman:

comment(fire temp, fire mass, water mass, boiler pressure,
water level, tender_water_mass, tender_coal_mass,
smoke_quantity, fire_condition, coal quality )

EngineVariables( 775 1650 3000 160 0.5 35000 11200 350 1 1 )


It should read:

comment ( fire temp, fire mass, water mass, boiler pressure,
water level, tender_water_mass, tender_coal_mass,
smoke_quantity, fire_condition, coal quality )

EngineVariables ( 825 1650 3000 160 0.5 35000 1 100 1 0.85 )

You should also consider running with the firebox doors open when possible, except in tunnels

I also noticed today that a bit too much steam seemed to be coming out of the engine on the sim when the regulator is on zero, compared to the real thing. Another annoying thing I have experienced on MSTS with the Swanage M7 is that the smoke is always black no matter what I do . I don't know if this is realistic for the engine, however from what I have read on the internet, black smoke means the engine is not burning the coal efficiently. Any help would be very much appreciated.

There are some alternative smoke substitutes available, search the file library and see what is available.

Always before attempting to modify a file save the original so that if you make a mistake you will not have lost the original.

Ian

[ntanswell]

Thanks for that, opening the second injector (steam) really calms the pressure, i just thought the injectors were used for injecting water. i have a lot to learn . Would any body be able to explain why some engines on the sim just don't seem to burn the coal efficently ( black smoke)? The worst culprit seems to be the Swanage M7. I can go for ages without shoveling the coal in, with the firebox door open and it still produces black smoke. The 9F on the ELR is the same, however after seeing a 9F , it appears to be realistic

Nathan

[ntanswell]

Nathan,

Welcome to the wonderful world of the .eng file.

There were a lot of errors in the default scotsman and many modelers still use derivatives of the default scotsman as the basis for their physics.

To really give a good result, you will need to have the .eng file in front of you however to answer your post I have copied the post and will try to answer point by point.


I am no expert with steam engines, my prime interest is diesel. Recently however I have been driving and firing steam trains (mainly the WSR Manor and the ELR 9F), and I have really enjoyed it. After just coming back from the Gloswarks, having spent the day riding behind "Kinlet Hall" and observing the engine carefully I have noticed that unlike MSTS, the engine didn't blow off throughout the day.

This is a common fault in MSTS as the locomotives do not consume sufficient water and coal, its fairly complex to calculate the correct values that will make the loco steam raising and steam consumption come more into balance. The best approach would be to take a similar sized loco from the Severn Vally stud if you have it, or one that you have and which does not have the problem and compare the .eng file with the one that came with the M7. One thing to bear in mind is that some of the parameters are interdependent

however at on occasions I noticed the fireman had opened the safety valve a bit, probably to control the boiler pressure.

The safety valve is automatic and its operation is deliberately out of the contril of the fireman, you can find the SafetyValvesSteamUsage Parameter and increase this value.

I am quite frustrated about not being able to get rid of excess steam in MSTS, so far I have just been smothering the fire with coal, resulting it black smoke.

Putting more coal on the fire than you need will reult in black smoke, however there is a parameter in the .eng file which has an error in it, this reads in the default scotsman:

comment(fire temp, fire mass, water mass, boiler pressure,
water level, tender_water_mass, tender_coal_mass,
smoke_quantity, fire_condition, coal quality )

EngineVariables( 775 1650 3000 160 0.5 35000 11200 350 1 1 )


It should read:

comment ( fire temp, fire mass, water mass, boiler pressure,
water level, tender_water_mass, tender_coal_mass,
smoke_quantity, fire_condition, coal quality )

EngineVariables ( 825 1650 3000 160 0.5 35000 1 100 1 0.85 )

You should also consider running with the firebox doors open when possible, except in tunnels

I also noticed today that a bit too much steam seemed to be coming out of the engine on the sim when the regulator is on zero, compared to the real thing. Another annoying thing I have experienced on MSTS with the Swanage M7 is that the smoke is always black no matter what I do . I don't know if this is realistic for the engine, however from what I have read on the internet, black smoke means the engine is not burning the coal efficiently. Any help would be very much appreciated.

There are some alternative smoke substitutes available, search the file library and see what is available.

Always before attempting to modify a file save the original so that if you make a mistake you will not have lost the original.

Ian

Thanks for that Ian, greatly appreciated. I would of thought because the M7 came with a commercial product, its .eng file would be in perfect order. I will have a look in the file libary for the smoke effects, currently I am using the one by Niels Piccito contained in the trainsim fixes download on the quick pics bar. I will change the values you suggested and I will keep a copy of your message for future reference. Do you know of a good resource the technical info of steamers as I am really getting into them. Still no match for the old diesel though

Thanks again

Nathan