Activties on hold for the time

[tubemad]

Hello all,

Just a message to say that me and expressboy1983 have stopped making activities and will be on hold for a whilst. That could be days, weeks or months (maybe never!) if you haven't guessed already, simon has moved into mine (as a flatmate that is} and we have both decided to put MSTS on hold. (not for other reasons you may assume, we are not together!)

why hold them?

Well I have been on Euro Truck Sim and both on SimSig as well and also the fact MSTS activity making was like an extra job! I'd come back from work, have dinner, work on activities, bed then same rouetine, some weekends were nothing but activity making just to get them out for you to play, but no money out of it. Money isn't the key issue, we both know its for free and we do it for free but what as hit us is respect. Our downloads maybe high (even simons Thames Mersey had over 700 people download it) but not one grateful word for it. People may be quick to moan it doesn't work (and most e-mail me about activities not working as they can't find a cabview, thus ask me where to find it not look on UKTS!) I make activities, not the stock, coaches etc. But no-one at all has given us a thanks or anything along those lines for working around the clock burning our backsides off each and everyday making activities. Until a couple of days ago, this is pretty much our first time we have stopped working on them. For a whole month everyday we were making and releasing activities and it's time to grind to a stop.

We might get the urge to carry on (without getting sick of seeing the picture of enginners working on the track on the editors and tools menu!) but this will be a whilst yet (for me anyway) before my next activity 'Hydraulics Diesel Gala' for the WSR comes out.

Finally, I'd like to say this not a rant to start flamewars and everyone, we just fell sick and fed up of going day in/day out without any praise.

I wish everyone good luck with their activities but all I can say to you is don't work too hard. We found out the hard way and it really isn't worth it.

Sorry if I upset anyone at all but this is how we feel at the moment.


I shall let you know when we continue working on MSTS actvities.


Cheers,

James & Simon

[desiro5]

Well I'm afraid i cant agree at all with this - there is no logic.

You say that you constantly work on activitys.... you have no need to do that?! There is no one there telling to spend all your time doing it. Its a hobby for goodness sake - not a job. Moaning that you have spent hours on end is silly - there was no need to do that in the first place. This sums it all up really:

But no-one at all has given us a thanks or anything along those lines for working around the clock burning our backsides off each and everyday making activities

There is no need for you to "working around the clock burning our backsides" - if you want to do that fine, but just because your doing that, you cant expect more praise than anyone else.

You cant expect people to send messages to you about your activity. Really silence is the sign that your activitys are being enjoyed - means there are no problems, and that people have been driving this and enjoying them. Sure its nice to get nice comments, but as i say silence is good - means people are enjoying them - if they werent people would problably moan about them, as you said!

I'm sorry but i have no sympathy for you, as of cource this is really what this post is - you want us to say "oh yes we do love your activitys sorry for not telling you" and then you say "why thanks... that makes me feel lile writing one again".

Youve dug yourself into this pit.

[Easilyconfused]

You cant expect people to send messages to you about your activity. Really silence is the sign that your activitys are being enjoyed - means there are no problems, and that people have been driving this and enjoying them. Sure its nice to get nice comments, but as i say silence is good - means people are enjoying them - if they werent people would problably moan about them, as you said!

I'm sorry but i have no sympathy for you, as of cource this is really what this post is - you want us to say "oh yes we do love your activitys sorry for not telling you" and then you say "why thanks... that makes me feel lile writing one again".

Well I have to disagree Ali.

Yes it is true that nobody has to write activities (or build routes and stock for that matter). However, when they do and then upload them it would be nice if people did give positive feedback where appropriate. Negative feedback is usually quick to arrive as noted but rarely do people say thanks.

Not looking to get a flame-war going but if someone has worked hard to create something then a few words of thanks don't go amiss.

[desiro5]

As a activity writer myself, sure feedback is great, but i dont think you can expect it. If your writing activitys for people to say "oh i really enjoyed it thanks", then i say go home. I write activitys for my own enjoyment and release then to UKTS - if people download it than that is an added bonus, as is comments.

EDIT: I have sent 3 or 4 pm's in my time to people about activitys - these were for people whos activitys that i downloaded that I though really were outstanding. Please not this isn't a comment of James of Simons work - have not downloaded one of their activitys as of yet.

[tubemad]

Thank you John.

Yes the point really is that people have just simply moaned at me about them, but not usually about errors, most of my e-mails are about 'where do I get xxx stock from' 'where can I get the cab for xxx' 'My route is broke, such and such doesn't work'. People don't seem to understand an activity is an add-on, we don't make the routes/stock as well!

And if it is a moan about an activity not working, its in my inbox straight away, within a day after its uploaded. I try and help and I'm off the mark releasing v2 'fixed' version but once thats out theres no 'thanks very much for fixing it it now works'. In fact no-one says if it is fixed or not. That would be like me going to get my car fixed, them doing the work flatout, me handing over the cash and driving off without a word said, to me I couldn't do that, it's not nice.

Ali, You make yours for your pleasure but we on the other had do it for others. Once I've made something and release it after trsting, I never see it again as im working on something else for everyone. Try making an activity with delays, passing loops etc then go round and round testing it, getting times (so you can estimate when your AI train should hold you up) then going round again to see if it holds you up (sometimes it's miss-timed a bit meaning an edit then going round yet again to test).

I know we don't HAVE to make activities so hard, it's usually a case of working hard to get it out otherwise you get bored of your own activity, especially testing it a zillion times.

I do of course give my thanks to other people's work on MSTS, like Dave who done the excellent DC route, Anton for the re-skins, just many don't bother really. It would be hard to e-mail everyone to say thanks but something like a comments box on your downloads would be a great addition to post your thoughts/suggestions/comments/compliments.



Cheers,

James.

[desiro5]

Try making an activity with delays, passing loops etc then go round and round testing it, getting times (so you can estimate when your AI train should hold you up) then going round again to see if it holds you up (sometimes it's miss-timed a bit meaning an edit then going round yet again to test).

Why do you doubt i have James? I have. I've been working on a activity for MEP for about a week now, and i'm probably not halfway. Its time consuming and often frustrating. Trying to thread together wait points, shunting, other ai blockers can be a nightmare!

I've just been testing a new act for DC this evening - been having woe with the AI at reading - but I think its getting there now.

I must take this moment to apologise for my first coments - i read your post and i went absolotuley mental Not that I agree with your views, but i came out quite aggressive, so my apologies.

Ali

[Lad491]

Im afraid Im mostly with Ali, although Jon makes a valid point that it is nice to get feedback.
For myself i have spent many thousands of hours working on activities, and I can count the number of comments i have in the tens rather than the hundreds. Many thousands of downloads of my activities have probably produced about a hundred comments, at most. It is nice when people say nice things - everyone likes their ego polished a bit at times, but i dont write activities for that. Thats a bonus when it happens.

I write activities in the main (except for those occasions when ive been asked to do them for a particular route) for myself. Usually because activities available dont suit me, or the route inspires me to want to. Thats the important word - want to. I do them because I want to, for myself. If others download them and like them, thats a bonus, and if they drop me a note to say they liked it, thats a bigger bonus, but i dont expect it, nor do I write activities in the hope of getting such praise.

I know how long they take to write, and mine take ages but its my time and im doing something I want, for myself. Thats what you should be doing. Writing stuff you want, then sharing with others. That way you can spend a week on them, or chuck them away if you get fed up. If someone says thanks, accept that but dont expect it.

Im afraid that people who shout about doing this and doing that usually do nothing. Say nothing about anything you are doing until its done, then a short post when its approved is all thats needed.

Ive just had a complete break myself. I havent written anything for about 6 weeks, and only today have i driven an activity (one of mine as i only like my own ones ) after a similar break. I felt fed up because it was taking over my life but now i feel ready to look at it again. So take a break yourself, then do one or two for yourself. If you like them, share them and maybe one or two other people will say thanks, but never expect it.

[expressboy1983]

Hiya guys.

Before all of this gets blown way out of proportion, i would like to make a few points of what this post ACTUALLY is.

1: Two guys that have done a lot of activity writing over the last month or so, and have decided it's time to shelve things until our own interest returns.
2: To enlighten, and remind people that..although EVERYONE is quick to moan and complain about everything (not just MSTS, life in general) that sometimes, 'Thank You' goes a long way

That's it!

I personally don't expect or feel i deserve any thanks for any of the activities i've written over the last 2 years. And infact to put it into perspective, i have actually had 3 thank you's in the said amount of time. With that said, at the end of it i do ONLY write activities. I'm not one of the people who has the capabilities and understanding of how to re-work textures, make my own textures, make models etc etc. It's those people, and the people who make their own routes, who need the majority of respect and thanks, as without them i'd have nothing to do!

To refer back to Ali's comments....

There is no need for you to "working around the clock burning our backsides" - if you want to do that fine, but just because your doing that, you cant expect more praise than anyone else.

1: We chose to do that for reasons we saw as perfectly valid. James and myself both had ten's of activities being written at a time mainly for one route in particular which was the brilliant Paddington 2 Penzance, as we both agree'd it'd been around for a hell of a long time, but nothing much really done with it activity wise.
2: "Just because we're doing that" doesn't mean we EXPECT anything. However because as stated we're all too quick to complain, the only thing we DID expect, were complaints

As for this...

I'm sorry but i have no sympathy for you, as of cource this is really what this post is - you want us to say "oh yes we do love your activitys sorry for not telling you" and then you say "why thanks... that makes me feel lile writing one again".

1: Speaking for myself, i dont want your sympathy.
2: Speaking for myself, i don't need your sympathy.
3: Rather childish comment, don't you think?

To move on a bit...

Yes it is true that nobody has to write activities (or build routes and stock for that matter). However, when they do and then upload them it would be nice if people did give positive feedback where appropriate. Negative feedback is usually quick to arrive as noted but rarely do people say thanks.

That, is the whole point of this thread. Thank you for seeing the point John.

Maybe James and myself are just being a little fussy, maybe we're not who knows really? ALl i know is that everytime i look at the "My Uploads" screen, i see almost 2000 downloads in total, and only remember 3 "Thank You"'s out of all of them.

I do indeed agree that this is infact a hobbie, nothing more nothing less, and if it was a hobbie for myself only to enjoy then this thread wouldn't be happening, but because it's a hobbie i wish to pay for to share with the rest of the train simming community, a simple thank you if you like what you get for your 3 pound per month makes all the difference.

Simon.

[expressboy1983]

And Laurie, YOU are one of the activity writers i look out for, and respect the most. If i see an activity written by you, i'll download it without even reading about it. If i don't have the route you've done the activity for, i'll get it. Simply because i know it'll be awesome.

[rfletcher72]

Not quite sure what all this is about

The last act I uploaded took me at least 3 weeks to perfect, and then a further week for those who volunteered to test it (successfully I may add, a crucial point if you are to avoid critcisim and/or negative feedback).

Of the 200+ who have downloaded this act, only ONE message of thanks was received (and NO adverse feedback - testing is the key here (sic)).

Am I bovverred? Of course not, that is not the reason I uploaded the act, to get some 'big up' from the Community. I did it because I enjoyed doing it and wanted to share it with others. The lack of rave reviews has not prevented me from doing more, and I will upload again no doubt.

On the whole, very disappointing

[expressboy1983]

Well initially, James made the original post letting people know we weren't going to be around for a while, simply because of a lck of interest with MSTS at present, and his reasons for not wanting to do anything more with MSTS at this time. Understandable....Then someone mentioned something about expecting praise and respect from the community, and boom we've ended up in a full blown debate

At the end of the day, both James and myself have let you all know we wont be working with MSTS for a while, which as art f this community it is our priveledge to do, and we've both told you our own personal reasons for this again with priveledge, and that a little thanks every now and then for something you put a lot of effort into would make things a little more enjoyable. That is the bottom line in this thread.

I really didn't think this thread would be met with so much tension, debate and hostility. Unfortunately that's the saddest part. None the less, thank you everyone for sharing your views, beliefs and opinions.

However on a brighter note, i must say..... at "Am i bovvered?" Long live Catherine Tate!

Kindest regards.

Simon

[desiro5]

Not quite sure what all this is about

The last act I uploaded took me at least 3 weeks to perfect, and then a further week for those who volunteered to test it (successfully I may add, a crucial point if you are to avoid critcisim and/or negative feedback).

Of the 200+ who have downloaded this act, only ONE message of thanks was received (and NO adverse feedback - testing is the key here (sic)).

Am I bovverred? Of course not, that is not the reason I uploaded the act, to get some 'big up' from the Community. I did it because I enjoyed doing it and wanted to share it with others. The lack of rave reviews has not prevented me from doing more, and I will upload again no doubt.

On the whole, very disappointing

Sums up my views really.

And @ Simon, yes, that comment was childish - was meant to be so in a sarcastic way.

[NiallGray]

Oooooh a debate!

Fact is, you get very little thanks in life as a whole, and even less so on here. Anyone who comes on here expecting praise because they've just busted a gut for the last few weeks to get the act done, is to be blunt, deluded.

I'm pleased that in 13,000 plus activity downloads, I've only ever rec'd 4 complaints (I keep the PMs ) -- none of which actually relate to the acts themselves. The first three related to rogue consists in a stock item that went with the NG1 & NG2 acts, and the other wasn't even really a complaint. All it was that the re-done NG1 act had somehow had the pic instead of zip file as download! To me, 4/13000 is considered praise as it shows I've tested and tested (and tested!) those acts to make sure the downloader has no problems.

MSTS has given me a lot of fun. Working on EH2 in my opinion was an honour and although it's a shame it was never commercially released, the community as a whole has got to see probably Tim's best-ever work.

One of the reasons I primarily keep involved with MSTS is because of my favourite route -- Glasgow - Carlisle. I've been doing acts for it over the last 2 years because I wanted more people to be able to appreciate the route. For a long time the only act writer was me, but thankfully others are now contributing (and I am grateful for that). Again because of Glasgow - Carlisle I got into re-skinning. I didn't do the re-skins because I wanted praise, I just wanted more stock (and variations on liveries) to help me write even more acts! And afterwards, considering they are my first models, I was really pleased with my efforts!

Unless you are having to do them for a reason (ie request, or working on a project), be selfish and do the acts because that's an act you want to see. And only then, if you think it'd benefit the community, upload it. That way, looking for praise will never come into it.

Niall

[perfnet]

I will agree that it is a nice touch when you do get positive feedback about something you upload, if only to know that people are actually playing with the flippin' things as well as just clicking the download link. I have taken the occasional break from activity writing and it's important to do so, if only to recharge the creative batteries and have a walk around and enjoy the rest of what the world has to offer.

James and Simon, enjoy the break and I hope you'll be back with more!

Richard

[dee4141]

Just take comfort from the number of downloads - if you've had over 700 for 1 activity then you must be doing something right! And 700 guys/gals have had some fun and enjoyment too - it's what it's all about.