What makes an activity worth downloading.

judith · Post by **judith** » Wed Sep 18, 2002 5:07 pm

General Question:

What makes a good activity?

Do you think that having to play around with cab views etc puts people off the type of activity such as Garsdale Freight?

The download rate for it is quite low campared to the Ribblehead Freight activity.

Any Comments please?

Judith

Jonnie1972 · Post by **Jonnie1972** » Wed Sep 18, 2002 6:33 pm

Hi
If you have to really muck around putting in extra cabviews, editing wag, eng files for the activity to work this can be a real turn off. Even if you know what you are doing. Some people can be turned off by having to download loads of extra wagons for the activity, ah em I`m a guilty one for that, but as far as downloading goes, if you a big UK train fan, most people will have a lot of the required stock anyways.
As far as what makes a good activity it goes on what peole like, some people may love steam, really modern trains or the BR Blue era etc.

Ive done about 12 activities for MSTS and only released 6 of them, 3 are on this site, the 3 on here I like and liked making, and I have had some good feedback from some people, which makes it more worthwhile doing them.

Some activities that I have downloaded have required only abot 2-3 extra downloads and we are going to be running the whole route, this tells me, nothing much to look at, may aswell just explore route.

Like I say every one is different and likes different things, some are easily pleased and some arent.

asalmon · Post by **asalmon** » Wed Sep 18, 2002 9:35 pm

Jonnie1972 wrote:If you have to really muck around putting in extra cabviews, editing wag, eng files for the activity to work this can be a real turn off. Even if you know what you are doing.

Yes, anything that requires tweaking an ENG or a WAG I won't touch - as changing it will break existing activities, and I think its up to the creator to choose compatible stock.

Jonnie1972 also wrote:Some activities that I have downloaded have required only abot 2-3 extra downloads and we are going to be running the whole route, this tells me, nothing much to look at, may aswell just explore route.

Not necessarilly, it means they are being used efficiently. If on your travels you pass 5 deltics coming towards you, do you really need them all to have different numbers - you just don't notice, so may as well use the same one multiple times.

finally Jonnie1972 wrote:Like I say every one is different and likes different things, some are easily pleased and some arent.

With you 100% there!

-Alan

peterdore · Post by **peterdore** » Wed Sep 18, 2002 10:37 pm

The main thing is to keep the download of stock to a minimum...there is nothing more off putting than having to spend a day downloading stock, now what you can do is to make the stock as simple as possible ie use a few items for the whole activity.

Eto software is a great help with swapping item for item but even that takes ages, so keep the stock list to a minimum that should be a great help to people.

Hope this is of some value to you..good luck

pete

megatron · Post by **megatron** » Wed Sep 18, 2002 10:53 pm

im guilty of fiddling with WAG and END files greatly.
Im trying some more activities for GNER East Coast but im finding too many of the loco's just dont handle (how id expect to be) realisticly (braking being a major problem. most simply stop too quickly).
So im prone to getting out the calculator and editing brake values and other performace related figures.
Problem then is while ive got an activity that drives well on my computer, if i upload it, it will drive differently on some one elses computer. Meaning they may encounter problems or just simply not have a good drive.

As in my opinion a realstic drive (lol realism is this version of train sim?! i need a slap for that!) is the best kind of activity
Cheers
guy

peterdore · Post by **peterdore** » Wed Sep 18, 2002 10:55 pm

megatron
Established Forum Member
im guilty of fiddling

Rude boy

pete

BobLatimer · Post by **BobLatimer** » Thu Sep 19, 2002 12:49 am

I agree, a lot of it is personal preference.

I personally don't like fiddling with .eng and .wag files so avoid I those. I don't mind downloading a bit of extra stock or swapping for something similar using Activity Analysis. I don't really go for passenger activities where the only challenge appears to be stopping at the stations.

I really enjoyed your Garsdale Recovery, Judith, once I got around all of the MSTS deficiencies. Dave Millen did some activities for the S&C 1930 a while ago that had similar interesting freight working.

In summary, lots to do as the Player, lots of challenges, lots of AI and, within the constraints of MSTS, realistic working.

asalmon · Post by **asalmon** » Thu Sep 19, 2002 6:18 am

Definately personal - I prefer passenger acts, you have to stop at the platform, roughly in the right place, on time!

Alan

saddletank · Post by **saddletank** » Thu Sep 19, 2002 8:47 am

megatron wrote:im finding too many of the loco's just dont handle (how id expect to be) realisticly (braking being a major problem. most simply stop too quickly).
So im prone to getting out the calculator and editing brake values and other performace related figures.

Guy, this subject comes up every couple of months. If you can get Joe Realmutos FCalc utility (its on this site uploaded by me) this works out correct rolling resistance for all stock. Braking power can be quite a personal thing but I set it to a value in kN of 67% of the locos weight in tons. For tenders and brake vans I use 30% and other rolling stock 20%. This tends to break down a bit for very light engines (e.g. Terry's Inglis industrial shunter needs stiffer brakes) but generally gives you a more realistic driving experience. The default braking powers are total fantasy.

saddletank · Post by **saddletank** » Thu Sep 19, 2002 9:02 am

Judith

What you are asking is a very personal thing and is more like 'how do you like to play the game'? Generally though I would try to keep stock downloads to a minimum and I would definitely NOT alter eng and wag files (although offering the user suggested changes is fine). All my stock is manually modified to suit my perception of how the stock should behave, and has custom sounds, cabviews, etc all in and I'd be a tad annoyed if my hard work was overwritten. But that aside if there are front coupler issues (for example) with some stock then by all means give the user a suggested fix in the readme.

I personally do not mind downloading a lot of stock for an activity I know is 'up my street'. One thing that does bug me however is rolling stock used out of period or geographic region. In terms of steam era freight the average mixed goods train was VERY mixed and only a large download list will give you an authentic train. At the moment the best represented regions/periods in UK freeware steam age goods stock is GWR 1915-1945 and BR 1950-1970 where we have a really good selection. With Pat Daltons S&C and Gordon Mac's Ruabon-Bala we have the two ideal routes to run correct trains on. But if you build up a steam era goods train please don't have 6 vehicles of one type followed by 6 of another, etc - please mix the consist right up so wagons are randomly distributed by type. Long rakes of identical wagon types were limited to special traffics like fish, or car parts in vacuum vans. Rakes of identical wagons are a fairly modern thing.

For me the ideal activity would be a stopping goods run where you left shed with a light engine, filled up with water from a yard water tank or platform end crane, then trundled over to a yard to pick up a brake van, then your train and finally went along the line collecting and delivering wagons en-route. Passing traffic adds to this but the two aspects of meeting AI trains that for me make it feel like a living railway are seeing engines shunting in the yards you pass and meeting opposing traffic in passing loops on a single line, especially if you reach the passing place first and can sit and admire the scenery for a couple of minutes.

MartinH · Post by **MartinH** » Thu Sep 19, 2002 5:24 pm

I don't think there is an ideal activity. We all have different tastes. Some don't mind downloading trains and actually want a variety of stock, while others would run everything with a dash 9 if they could. I suppose the best advice here is to make the activity as realistic as possible without going overboard on the stock (e.g. use one of each type of loco and don't worry about the numbers). Also try to re-use your consists in later activities - it's worthwhile downloading something if you use it more than once.

The postings to this thread so far have illustrated the variety in taste. Alan Salmon is happy thrashing Deltics and HSTs up and down the ECML, while Saddletank likes his goods trains and shunting. (Martin, there is a shunt on the Mideast CD written especially for you - have you tried it yet?)

I don't know about you Judith, but I get bored writing too many similar activities, so I tend to mix them up a bit anyway. Goods trains are fun to write, but are also a pain in the **** to get working properly, so I rarely do two of them in a row. For example my sequence for Pat's S&C was goods, Northbound express, Anhydrite train, Southbound express.

If you want to write a really good activity, do some research first. Many of my consists are copied from photos in books and I even get ideas for activities this way. (As a final check I phone my dad who was a bit of a trainspotter in his youth and soon tells me if the livery is wrong for the era. )

Final suggestion: If you want to use lots of stock without downloading too much, write a few activities for the routes that come with stock supplied, e.g. Protrain 1 and 2, Heidi Express, Mideast UK. I'm about to upload several Mideast UK activities that don't require any downloading, because I've only used the trains off the CD.

Martin

alan2 · Post by **alan2** » Thu Sep 19, 2002 8:19 pm

I would like to add, I don't like to alter the Eng, wag files, will download any required stock. No matter how much is needed, but I would like to ask, If we are working to accurate activities why do we have the automatic coupling's on some loco's and Wagon's, and total Automatic on some carriage's, some chain on carriage's.

To be prototypical, We should have All chain coupling's, and combined Chain / Auto on carriage's. I am building an activity, using Non-default stock, With LMS loco's, LMS carriages and Wagon's, But the wagon's couple to the loco's and the carriages won't, but if I use Br-exLMS I get Chain coupling's on loco's and the wagon's won't work. ARRRGH!

I would like to add that no British stock had solely Automatic coupling's, Steam loco's never used them, neither do Diesel's. The only stock to carry Auto coupling's were carriage's, The buckeye coupling's, between the carriage's only, they were drop down to allow the chain/ Screw coupling to attach to the loco. I found this information from My dad (ex-railwayman).

Jonnie1972 · Post by **Jonnie1972** » Thu Sep 19, 2002 9:32 pm

As far as couplings go for MSTS I thing all should be one or the other. Reason being is, yes I can edit eng/wag files but if included in activity means others do aswell, most engines are automatic couplings but wagons arent in MSTS. I am making another activity and I want to include certain wagons that are chain.
I think this an important point. To be honest I dont care less what the couplings are if there was ever to be one or the other, as at the end of the day we cant see them for the realism.

alan2 · Post by **alan2** » Thu Sep 19, 2002 9:49 pm

I agree. But we could do with speaking to the train modeller's and wagon modeller's, and asking them to do a modified .eng and .wag file for every loco. and uploading them as a patch. Modify the origional file to include the variant coulpling's. etc.

So everyone can build Activities easily. Plus with MSTS v1 it make's no difference, you still get broken coupling's, auto, chain, bar. You set the break load.

Just thought of something, could we contact the modeller's, ask them if we can re-release some of their rolling stock and add a universal coupling, eg. a chain and Auto coupling entry, to allow automatic and chain coupling's in a single consist.

Just a thought.

MartinH · Post by **MartinH** » Thu Sep 19, 2002 11:22 pm

Rather than asking users to choose chain or automatic, I simply add a line in the readme that says something like, "For this activity to work 40xxx, the mineral wagons and brake van must all have the same type of coupling. These settings can be found in the eng/wag files for these items. "

Yes, it means the user having to do some editing, but to be honest all users should select their prefered coupling type and amend the eng/wag files when they install any new item of stock. If they can't be bothered then tough.

BTW, I've uploaded 38 actvities and never had a single complaint about having to change anything. Any other changes are only suggestions, e.g. increasing the coupling breaking strength to avoid broken couplings.

Just a thought, but you might not be aware that couplings only need to be the same if you intend to couple up during the game or make a consist using the activity editor. If you are simply driving around with a consist that someone else has made it doesn't matter if the couplings are different.

Martin