Steam Circular for the MidEast V1.3

Lad491 · Post by **Lad491** » Wed May 12, 2004 11:55 am

After numerous rewrites and repaths my latest activity is at last approaching completion. Its a steam run using Kim Durose's Britannia and a 10 coach train of maroon mk1's, starting and finishing at Kings X with outward stops at Welwyn, Peterborough and Grantham (Via Sleaford) and a non stop run back from Grantham to Kings X.

TSR's have been used at the notorious coupling break locations and I finally seem to have a configuration which works, albeit at very low speed (5mph). Braking from 100mph for a 5mph TSR at Biggleswade has proved interesting

It still needs static consists and more AI traffic (it has lots but there are still gaps which need filling) and, because it takes upwards of 3.5 hours to complete and most of the bugs have been in the last hour of running (why is that always the case

) it has had only very limited testing on the final stage so far.

Its still a few weeks away from uploading for public consumption. Its not a particularly hard activity - just another long run (which I like), a chance to break the world steam record if you fancy it (although ive only managed 123mph so far) and a chance to practise your firing skills if you fancy it on the long non stop stretches.

Ive started this thread to gauge interest and for the logging of any problems when its released. If anyone would like an advance copy to beta test i'll be happy to provide one. PM me if you are interested.

mjt222 · Post by **mjt222** » Thu May 13, 2004 11:32 am

Sounds very intriguing, as the braking at from on extreme to another will set the challenge

tinsley · Post by **tinsley** » Thu May 13, 2004 2:26 pm

Only drive steam ..so I am interested...could help with beta also...

Lad491 · Post by **Lad491** » Sat May 15, 2004 11:07 pm

Unfortunately I have been unable to cure the problem of the coupler breaking on the return leg of the run at Hitchin. Even with the V1.3 patch and travelling at 1 mph I still get a break followed by a complete MSTS crash. My solutions which worked on the outward leg at Biggleswade have failed consistently at Hitchin.

After 100+ hours of development work Ive decided to shelve the activity until i get another bright idea. I'll wait now for Tim's next release in which hopefully a better solution to this problem will be found.

Sorry to all those whose hopes I arose, and thanks to all those who sent me words of encouragement. I'm leaving activity writing for MidEast now and planning to take a look at NWE or CC4.

choccy · Post by **choccy** » Sun May 16, 2004 12:05 pm

Sorry you cant fix it after all that hard work. Have you tried a TSR of say several miles before Hitchin of say 50-60 mph? The only other possibility is taking a coach or more off the consist. I did some testing on this kind of problem some months ago and it seems clear that the coupling problem is related not only to distance travelled between points but also such factors at how hard the loco has to pull (e.g. a long consist and inclines make it worse and if you double headed it, which you won't want to do, I can almost guarantee the train would glide through Hitchin) and excessive speed variation. Also all the pent up energy is not inevitably dispersed at the next available set of points. If it's already near breakpoint some of the energy remains stored compoundng the problem if the next set of points is a considerable distance away. Mark

Lad491 · Post by **Lad491** » Sun May 16, 2004 6:56 pm

Thanks Mark

Ive already taken two coaches off the rake to get through biggleswade on the outward run - it now goes over the points if you go at 5mph. I dont want to remove any more as the whole point of the run is to have a heavy train. Likewise, as you say, I dont want to double head.

The approach to hitchin is done under cautions for a red light at Hitchin anyway, so speed has been scrubbed off for about 3 miles before ( from 75mph ). Ive tried speeds as low as 1 mph, stopping completely and then pulling forward, and approaching the single yellow at 75mph and slamming the brakes on. No joy.

Anyway - ive had enough now and MidEast has been train stored to await a revised version. Pity because it had promise.

jimmyladd · Post by **jimmyladd** » Mon May 17, 2004 10:01 am

Don't be dismayed, there is a solution. Increase the brake force of the couplings of the coaches 10 fold, rename them xxxxx_strong in the wag file and save them as xxxxx_strong.wag. You will need to change the player consist to use these modified coaches, and the upload the modified wag file with the activity, telling the user which folder to put it in. If you are having any difficulty doing this, just send me a pm and I'll explain it in more detail
Jim

Fodda · Post by **Fodda** » Mon May 17, 2004 11:07 am

Jimmy is right. All the stock supplied with MidEast CD has had the coupler break values uprated hugely to cope with the problem. Have a look at any of the MidEast stock and then go and modify your own likewise. I had to do it myself the other day when an 8F I'd downloaded went out with the old break values. Once I'd toughened it up to MidEast standard, it cruised through Biggleswade at 60.

Lad491 · Post by **Lad491** » Mon May 17, 2004 11:56 am

ok - quick question about this.

Im using the default coaching stock (the maroon mk1's) from the CD but using Kim Durose's Britannia as the loco. Assuming the coaching stock has already had its coupling strength modified, do I need to do the same with the tender of the loco (which I assume is a .wag file ) ? or should I do both ?

choccy · Post by **choccy** » Mon May 17, 2004 12:57 pm

I do know that the latest version of Ian Morgan's Mk1's (all versions) have improved physics and were developed particulraly to address the coupling break/derailment problem. Mark

ianmacmillan · Post by **ianmacmillan** » Mon May 17, 2004 1:52 pm

You might as well increase the break values for the loco and tender, and everything else for that matter.

The broken coupling feature is a gimmic anyway. In 30years on the railways it has only happened to me twice.

Lad491 · Post by **Lad491** » Mon May 17, 2004 9:36 pm

Ok Folks - This is the Britannia Tender wag file. Can someone tell me what lines to change and what values to use. Im assuming the items ive highlighted in bold are the lines to change, but i dont understand the value (3.2e6n) or how to increase it by a value of 10 as Jimmylad suggested.

If I save the amended wag file how do i tell conbuilder to use that wag file rather than the default?

Any help greatly appreciated.

Laurie

SIMISA@@@@@@@@@@JINX0D0t______

Wagon ( 70000tend
Type ( Tender )
WagonShape ( 70000tend.s )
Size ( 2.64m 4.04m 6.7m)
CentreOfGravity ( 0m 1.90m 0m )
Mass ( 38.0t )
InertiaTensor ( Box (2.6m 4m 6.7m) )
Coupling (
Type ( Automatic )
Spring (
Stiffness ( 1e6N/m 2e6N/m )
Damping ( 1e6N/m 1e6N/m)
Break ( 3.2e6N 3.2e6N )
r0 ( 20cm 40cm )
)
)

Coupling (
Type ( Bar )
Spring (
Stiffness ( 1e7N/m 1e7N/m )
Damping ( 0.2e7N/m 0.2e7N/m )
Break ( 1e7N 1e7N )
r0 ( 10cm 1e9 )
)
CouplingHasRigidConnection ()
Velocity (0.1m/s)
CouplingUniqueType (7P_70000)
)

Lights ( 1

Light (
comment( Rear red light )
Type ( 0 )
Conditions (
Headlight ( 3 )
Unit ( 3 )
)
FadeIn ( 0.5 )
FadeOut ( 0.5 )
Cycle ( 0 )
States ( 1
State (
Duration ( 0.0 )
LightColour ( 80ff0000 )
Position ( 0.9 1.4151 -2.93 )
Azimuth ( -180 -180 -180 )
Transition ( 0 )
Radius ( 1.0 )
)
)
)
)

BrakeEquipmentType( "Handbrake, Vacuum_brake, Auxilary_reservoir" )
BrakeSystemType( "Vacuum_single_pipe" )
MaxBrakeForce( 55000N )

MaxHandbrakeForce( 35kN )
AuxilaryLeakRate( 0.1 )
TripleValveRatio( 2.5 )
MaxReleaseRate( 14 )
MaxApplicationRate( 14 )
MaxAuxilaryChargingRate( 15 )
BrakeCylinderPressureForMaxBrakeBrakeForce( 21 )

Adheasion ( 0.2 0.4 2 0 )
DerailRailHeight ( 4cm )
DerailRailForce ( 150kN )
DerailBufferForce ( 400kN )
WheelRadius ( 0.4825m )
NumWheels ( 6 )
Friction (
50N/m/s 1 -1mph 0 1
5.1N/rad/s 1 -1rad/s 0 1
)
IntakePoint ( -2.3 0 FuelWater )
IntakePoint ( 1.0 2.73 FuelCoal )

Sound ( "FSWagT.sms" )
)

jimmyladd · Post by **jimmyladd** » Tue May 18, 2004 9:47 am

OK, here's what you do. Change both the break values to 1e10N for the wag file, and do the same for the loco. Remember to save the files as unicode files. If you wish you can alter the Wagon ( 70000tend to Wagon ( 70000tend_strong and resave it with the wag file name as 70000tend_strong. Do the same with the eng file and then go into AE and remake the player consist with the new engine and tender (they will come up with the same name but _strong on the end of the name (remember when you do the eng file you have to go down the list and change any referance to the name to the _strong (I think there are 4 referances)) When you upload the activity you will have to upload the modified wag and eng files and tell the downloader where to put them. I have done this in several activites and I have not had any complaints.
Cheers
Jim

Deltic9000 · Post by **Deltic9000** » Tue May 18, 2004 12:25 pm

Hi Laurie

In your coupling damping settings, change

Damping ( 1e6N/m 1e6N/m )
to
Damping ( 1e6N/m/s 1e6N/m/s )

and

Damping ( 0.2e7N/m 0.2e7N/m )
to
Damping ( 0.2e7N/m/s 0.2e7N/m/s )

check your carriage coupling damping settings also use N/m/s rather than N/m

I believe that the lack of /s causes snatches due to forces being applied instantly, rather than gradually.

I'm very willing to be corrected if I'm talking rubbish...

Lad491 · Post by **Lad491** » Tue May 18, 2004 9:37 pm

Thanks for that Martin and Jimmylad.

Im currently experiencing a few technical difficulties with MSTS following an unscheduled and automated uninstall that I couldn't stop.

When I get it back up and running again i'll give your suggestions a shot and see if it solves the issue at Hitchin.