Why wont AE save my waiting times???

PWHolmes · Post by **PWHolmes** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 3:16 am

After 10 days effort I have actually managed to get two trains to pass each other prototypically at Towyn (me driving a Class 25 + 5 MkIs north and the passing train a dmu heading south). The method I used was as follows:

1) Start the dmu from Morfa Mawdach before I depart Dovey Junction on a path to Dovey Junction

2) Build in a 20 minute "Waiting Point" for the dmu at a remote point north of Towyn.

I then arrive at Towyn just before the dmu which pulls into the up platform, my signals clear and off I go.

I am now trying to do the same at Dovey Junction with me driving a Machy to Aberystwyth relief and a coast line train waiting in the platform at Dovey Junction. I started the coast line train from the headshunt before I arrived and put a waiting point of 10 minutes in the coast line platform, having deleted the station stop.

It works OK-ish in AE but when I run MSTS the 10 minute waiting time hasn't saved and the coast line train has gone 10 minutes ago.

I'm going slightly mad.

Paul

longbow · Post by **longbow** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 4:29 am

Unfortunately, MSTS will not save non-zero waiting times: it's a well known bug. So you need to find some other way of giving the AI train precedence through the passing loop.

You can delay the AI train with a long stop at the station prior to the passsing loop by increasing the number of passengers at the platform. Alternatively, try putting a reversing point in the player path just before the passing loop and another immediately behind it (so that the player path then continues on ahead). This should prevent MSTS from clearing signals for the player beyond the reversing points until the player reaches them, and will thereby allow the AI train to get precedence. The player will trigger both RPs almost simultaneously so no actual reversing is involved.

PWHolmes · Post by **PWHolmes** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 5:07 am

Thanks for the help... yet another bit of lunacy from Bill's gang, so MSTS wont save non-zero waiting times. But....er.... what other waiting times are there? Surely a zero waiting time is not a waiting time.

Sadly neither of your solutions are applicable... the waiting train is on another route entirely independant of the path I am using and starts on the Dovey Junction headshunt. I simply want it to wait in the station for ten minutes before leaving. I dont mind if it starts there (eg in the platform) but I want it to wait to give me chance to arrive.

Is it possible to simply adjust the station dwell time from whatever is set for a particular AI service? Ive look at the (not much) help but dont seem to be getting anywhere.

Paul

longbow · Post by **longbow** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 6:29 am

A Waiting Point with zero waiting time will still halt the train momentarily. So you could use multiple WPs to slow an AI train eg to extend its time in a particular section.

To change station stop time, right click on the blue platform indicator, select 'properties' then adjust the number of passengers.

PWHolmes · Post by **PWHolmes** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 6:56 am

Thanks, longbow.

Problem is that I only want to hold one AI train in one activity at that station for 10 minutes, not all trains stopping at that platform... and that's a lot of momentary waiting points!!!

Looks like this is another thing that cant be done in MSTS.

The list is seemingly endless.

longbow · Post by **longbow** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 7:44 am

Adjusted platform times will only affect the current activity, and of course you can have other AI trains miss that stop, or set an earlier start time for them so that it leaves that stop at the correct time. Whilst it's tidy to have AI traffic following the correct path and timetable, that's rarely possible if you are trying to do something fancy with the activity.

In my experience, trains on a single track route will pass provided that it's properly signalled and they are pathed through the correct side of the passing loops. Getting them to pass where you want them to is another matter!

PWHolmes · Post by **PWHolmes** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 9:09 am

Have you had a go at the Cambrian Coast Line yet.... I cant really get it to do anything!!!

choccy · Post by **choccy** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 2:39 pm

If you want to add another frustration to your list, here's one. Right clicking on a platform marker selecting porperties and increasing the number of passengers often successfully delays a train or stops it disappearing at the end of its route, but I find it doesn't always work. Sometimes I find a way round it- that's a another story- but that's doesn't always work either. We have been told that writing activities will be a lot easier in MSTS2. It needs to be!!

Mark

Optrex · Post by **Optrex** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 5:55 pm

See my 'Passing loop blues' post - I got round the AI train arrival time issue by having it reverse back up the line (still in the single line section) and then reversing back towards the station. This seems to keep the section occupancy right, and you can just adjust the AI reverse point to adjust when the AI train arrives at the loop.

Dunno if it'll work for the Cambrian route, but it was the only way I could get the West Highland line passing to work.

PWHolmes · Post by **PWHolmes** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 12:52 am

Thanks, guys.

I have looked at the Towyn route again and, yes, the waiting time was reset to zero, so I put the number of passengers at 200 at the station where I originally had the waiting time and it works!!!! (I think I need to sit down for a bit!!)

Now then, how about this.

I am trying to create a down relief from Machy to Aberystwyth, connecting with a coast line train at Dovey Junction and passing a coal empties train at Borth. By setting the number of passengers for the Coast Line train, I can get it to wait in the station, I arrive at 1255 and we both depart together at 1257.

Great!!

For the coal empties, I have put in two reversing points somwhere in the region of Bow Street to slow him down. WITHOUT the reversing points he is waiting for me at Borth (not what I want) with my signals cleared. I arrive, his signals clear, we both depart.

WITH the reversing points, I arrive before him and draw up to the stop signal. The road is signalled for him (the coal empties). I wait, he arrives about 2 minutes after me and continues under clear signals northwards.

I then sit there forever staring at a stop signal.

What can I do to make my signal clear??... there is nothing at all beyond me to Aberystwyth.

Paul

PS this is more difficult than working the original real line!!!!

Optrex · Post by **Optrex** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 11:24 am

Not sure about the problem there, but I noticed last night when driving one of the out-of-the-box activities that when I arrived at the loop at Borth (with an Aber-bound train due to pass me) the signal for the AI train was already cleared as I approached!

Seems like there's something odd with the signalling around Borth - not that that helps you much!

PWHolmes · Post by **PWHolmes** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 12:43 pm

Not only Borth, I have noticed exactly the same at Dovey Junction

kevarc · Post by **kevarc** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 4:17 pm

One thing you can try and I found this to work as I was having the never ending red lights is go in and change the endpoint and start point. I found that you never ever should end a path at the end of the track. Always go in and put the endpoint in a few feet short of the end of track. The same for a start point, never use the end of a track as the start point.

Since I started doing this I have cleared up all kinds of problems with signals not clearing.

ohmygawdwotsausername · Mon Jun 30, 2003 12:06 am

Paul...

What can I do to make my signal clear??... there is nothing at all beyond me to Aberystwyth.

You're sitting facing a red that should clear to off?

Try reversing a tiny bit so that the blue arrow in the F4 track monitor points downwards from the top of the box and then return to forward motion and it should clear the signal...no promises mind you...the route builders most common screw up is placing signals inside of the red poles of point work....and then nuffink works ...jon.

If there is point work anywhere in a single line route that does not return the branch to the main line thus making a passing loop then that single point will be seen by the AI signalman as a home signal and thus a train in front of you will approach it and stop even if you have the 'token' for right of way to the end of the single line section. There is no way round this because MSTS sees points as signals, as you may have noticed, AI trains will often pass signals at start of a section and stop at the points waiting for a conflicting movment to pass. They will then procedd when the oncoming train crosses the points, not the signal protecting the points.

Building single line routes may be easier than multitrack routes but you sure cant run a traffic pattern on them. So next time you're in the market for a new route, pick a double track jobbie, you wont regret it.

Colz