Standard Coupling Type's Please Read.

alan2 · Post by **alan2** » Sun Nov 03, 2002 5:36 pm

I am an activity creator / Route Builder. which has run into several problem's while using stock placed on this site.

I am planning to go through all the stock I have and re-do the Coupling's to a standardised form.

I know it's not standard practice but For the sake of standardising stock, can we use all Automatic coupling's, they are the most widely used coupling in MSTS.

we should use a standard coupling type because when building activities mixed coupling's cause problem's with proto-typical train's, when you have a loco with Chain coupling's and the freight wagon's have Auto, also the required wagon's have different coupling types.

Most wagon's didn't have Auto couplings. But in msts the chain works like auto couplings anyway.

Most loco's had screw couplings, but MSTS does not support these, just chain.

So what's the point of chain couplings in MSTS? nothing, there is no point.

This is not a critisism of people's model's, just the way MSTS work's; and the way that some file's are, from an activity point of view.

In conclusion A standard Coupling type would benefit all activity creator's, model builder's and people who download activities. Because they don't want to be altering files to use an activity.

This is so all stock is compatible.

alan2 · Post by **alan2** » Sun Nov 03, 2002 10:54 pm

New Idea.

Why not include a couple of files for each model, one named model_au for Automatic Couplings. One named Model_ch for Chain Couplings.

This way the activity creators can use the model's with Both coupling type's, even if the loco's have chain all stock should be compatible or vice - versa.

asalmon · Post by **asalmon** » Sun Nov 03, 2002 10:59 pm

Plus another two for the types of brakes - it may get rather complicated.

alan2 · Post by **alan2** » Sun Nov 03, 2002 11:05 pm

don't you 4, 2 air * 2 vac.

au_ai / au_va / ch_ai / ch_va

though if you use auto, it's usually Air brakes, and Vacuum for Chain.

I may be wrong.

asalmon · Post by **asalmon** » Sun Nov 03, 2002 11:33 pm

Yep thats what I meant - my other two on your two gives four!

Also, my (limited) understanding is in agreement, vacuum and chain for steam, air and auto for diesel - of course early diesels were a mixture of air and vacuum, even in the same class sometimes!

Alan

DrkAngel · Post by **DrkAngel** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 4:21 pm

For diesels (and electrics for that matter) built after 1970 were fitted with air braking only, anything built before was either vacuum only (later dual fitted) or later dual braked from new.
Steam is more complex as there where companies that favoured the air braking system over vacuum and vis versa i.e. the Furness Railway and other Scottish companies favoured air with the likes of for instances the LNWR and Midland making vacuum the norm, the joint stock of both the west and east coast expresses therefore were dual braked for ease of operation.

Any for of chain coupling was generally more widespread but there are exceptions to using the auto coupling of the drophead type mainly with the LNER coaching stock and then later MK1 and above and now today with most freight stock as well as passenger trains so it is a complicated field to walk through.

As a thought I may introduce with my future releases a eng/wag file with all the variations to help with activities, I will keep as close to the real version as possible i.e. with brake types of both couplings availible but as alan said it will mean in some cases there will be four of the same loco or wagon in some cases, what would your thoughts be on this as if I do go ahead with this way of thinking I will only set it up with one consist to run it "straight out of the box" as standard in my releases but showing all of them in the activity editor.

If this sounds like a good idea then the batch of uploads I will be putting up on the site in the next 24 hours will be the first to contain these.

your thoughts please?

saddletank · Post by **saddletank** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 4:27 pm

As implied elsewhere I have everything pre-1970 as chain and post 1970 as auto. Vac/air brakes tend to divide either side of this watershed too. As I now have separate trainset folders for groups of routes (or even single routes) I can duplicate some stock with chain and some with auto. I would prefer not to have multiple wags in one download (esp auto-installers where you are sometimes not told what folder they are put in) but change them myself if required.

To have to wade through 4 versions of each model in search of the right coupling/brake combo in those already irritating pick lists would work against this idea I think.

DrkAngel · Post by **DrkAngel** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 9:18 pm

Martain I have been pondering on this for a while and I have come to the conclusion that I will follow that general rule of thumb as it seems easier in gerenal and just make all my own collection fully chained.

saddletank · Post by **saddletank** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 11:51 am

As the break point I have green diesels and maroon/choc-cream/green Mk.1s with chain and vac, blue diesels and blue/grey Mk.1s with auto and air. And everything just falls into the general rule either side of that cusp point. I agree it isn't realistic/historically correct but it's the best I can come up with, and is generally close. Freight wagons are trickier but if it was in service when steam was still on BR then it has chain, post-steam it gets auto and I just don't mix them, or the wagons live in diferent trainset folders anyway.

DrkAngel · Post by **DrkAngel** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 3:57 pm

Lets just hope that with MSTS2 they will be able to have dual braking and coupling to make life easier.

MasterfulEuan · Post by **MasterfulEuan** » Mon Dec 02, 2002 1:10 pm

probelms seem to arrise with the couplings on most stock, all modern locos should be air braked - as should there wagons.

Some stock should be dual braked, Class 37 and 47 are classic examples

The class 37s (37424 for instance) have dual couplings chain and auto

the chain couplings are supposed to give realistic "play" between the wagons, 50 wagons normally means 50 foot of play between the loco and last wagon! - freight train drivers even today take off slowly untill the last wagon coupling has grabbed!

I saw this at westbury recently, even the new monster box wagons with kunckle couplings grab alot. though what i saw was a pair of 59/1's with 44 wagons!

asalmon · Post by **asalmon** » Mon Dec 02, 2002 5:35 pm

trouble is MSTS doesn't support dual braking or dual coupling.

Where you see entries for two coupling types, the first is the front of the loco, the second is the rear!

Alan

lawndart · Post by **lawndart** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 7:34 pm

My spin on this one:

I personally prefer "realistic" brake forces. I have no preference for couplings or even brake types except when I can't run something due to them being different

As I don't tend to run much modern stuff my wagons tend to be unbraked chain fitted anyway.

A wag file is, however, only around 3-6kb in size.
I am currently going through all the vehicles I have downloaded and modifying the wag files for rolling stock.
I am creating an empty version, a full version, an automatic coupling version, a chain coupling version and versions of each brake type if braked. Each wagon gets the Realmuto friction calculation as a matter of course.
Each wag file gets suffixed:

E Empty, F Full.
A Auto-coupling, C Chain-coupling.
P Air-braked, V Vacuum-braked, U Unbraked.
S Standard MSTS braking, R Realistic braking.
An unsuffixed wag is the original downloaded version.

So ReDTeZ's empty 7 plank Websters private owner wagon, unbraked and chain coupled, in my notation, would be slightly different from the original 7PlankWebsterMt.wag, it becomes 7PlankWebsterECUR.wag. The original has an inoperative air-braking system.
This just leaves creation of the ECUS, EAUS, EAUR, FCUR, FCUS, FAUS and FAUR versions. Strictly speaking we don't need xxxR and xxxS versions unless we want to change the handbrake force.
A bit of copy/pasting and file renaming and we have wagons for all seasons in under 30Kb (60Kb if it has some sort of braking system.)
NOTE: The (Wagon ) line on the wag file gets amended too, so you can tell them apart easier in the consist editor.

The great benefit is more rolling stock instantly available in the consist editor. Activities could be written for suffixed wagons without the user finding something wrong because they e.g. changed the coupling type earlier.
There is a slight increase in download size - but hopefully not to hard on modem users (I went broadband 2 years ago and I tend to forget just how slow modems are.)

There is always the possibility of incorporating other parameters, such as single or twin pipe braking, "derail proofing". Each additional parameter has the potential to double the number of wag files though!

Atomic Systems

Standard Coupling Type's Please Read.

Standard Coupling Type's Please Read.

why not,