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CZD 26Em

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 6:20 pm
by mickoo
Completely out on a limb, bark at the moon type stuff but heres something l've been working on for a while, pet subject of mine..coal mines and there railways, industrials too. Hopefully something from Laubag and Rheinbraun to follow suit.

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Still work in progress hopefully finish the locos shortly, then paint.

Question, Whats the most popular panto height for Euro railways, as you can see mine is set too high on my route, easily adjusted but what too ?.

Best regards

Michael

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 6:53 pm
by jbilton
Hi Micheal

I've got routes from 5.4 to 7.23 but a lot of them seem to be 6.0

Cheers
Jon

Good Stuff !

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 9:33 am
by stevesherratt
Hi

Nice work Michael !

Loco`s with two box panto`s always get my attention .

Good Stuff !

All The Best

steve in ozz

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 12:41 pm
by johncard
A triple articulated locomotive? :o

Was there a transformer/motor (or whatever there is in electrics) in each of the 3 sections? Are they detachable?

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 6:58 pm
by mickoo
There is only one transformer from what l can gather, my slavic being worse than my German, if its even slavic they speak, lots of z's x's and ch's so something eastern European :).

The locos are permantly coupled together, and there's bus jumper cable between the units, its a sort of modular affair and there Bo-Bos are pretty simular but with a rigid body and two pantos, hopefully those will be next.

A simular design resides in USSR and China but these are from the East Germany company of LEW which before the war used to be in cahoots with another company in the West, Henschel or Krupp l think. The original locos were built before the war and the design moved on and evolved into this form. As far as l can tell the triple unit only resides in CZD these days and may even be scrapped now ?.

There primary use and all the others is coal mining, specifically Lignite which is not as dense as black coal and far more volumous, its mostly mined from open cast areas, there being a big one in West Germany near Koln and in East Germany near Cottbus, the West German one is much deeper and the biggest hole is about 5 miles long, 5 wide and over 800m deep, you have really got to see the excavators, absolutely enomous.

In West Germany the trains run from a collecting station to the power station, some is trans shipped to DB for use elsewhere, in East Germany the trains actually go into the pit, obviously loading cannot be done with an over head wire so in the pit the wire is transposed to the side and small side angled pantos are used, they fit just left and right of the main panto and on the same portal type support.

There are many subtile versions the three unit being the largest, RBW ( West Germany ) uses much more modern looking locos and there axel weight is 35t and there width much greater then DB so they are confined to there own railway, each wagon l think is rated at 150t and trains are usually 10 wagons long, side cab gondolas allow the driver to peer back along the train when running in reverse.

Heres some sites that may interest some of you industrial type guys

http://www.el-3.de/
http://spz.logout.cz/vozidla/dulni/dulni_lok.html

This is a good site, check out LAUBAG, RAG and Rheinbraun for more industrial electric locos
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/pri ... y/pix.html

Also here, check out EH for some dual power elctro diesels in there steel mills.
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/pri ... t/pix.html

Some Ardenne mining railways
http://www.rail.lu/arbedmines.html
http://www.rail.lu/materiel/aegmouton.html

These l like
http://www.rail.lu/arbedminesfrancaises.html

If your interested then check the whole Ardenne site out, theres links and pages galore and if like me you just like good old black and white lmages theres soime cracking ones here of just every day life in mining, mostly around the railways.

l've loads more of links, been collecting for years on these and figured it was about time some were made for MSTS, kinda like the idea of a Coal mine route, would be fun to travel down under ground and collect wagons and drag them back to the surface.

Best regards

Michael

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 8:01 pm
by mattvince
Very interesting, and a good looking start Mickoo. Reminiscent of the NER electrics of the 1900s.

Those Rheinbraun locomotives, however, will make a very interesting subject - electric trains on a monster scale! Wasn't Rheinbraun's excavators featured in 'Massive Engines' on TV? I think industrial operations have been overshadowed by the main-line routes - although MadMike has made the AdTranz 'IORE' locomotives for MTAB in Sweden.

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 9:36 pm
by mickoo
Hi Matt,

Thanks :), the Rheinbraun is top of my list of favourites for industrial stock, been collecting images off the web for a few years now, factory and power station ones too, pretty good idea of the track plan and surrounding scenery, got the DEM too and even started to flesh it out a little, my problem is real technical info on the ELs and to boot l like them all so rather than a specific route l decided on a generic one, then you can mix and match as you feel fit.

Ironically since the Wall came down both LAUBAG and Rheinbraun are now working in cahoots with each other so possible swapping of stock is possible, however the LAUBAG tend to be more of a heavier normal stock and even use normal couplings, Rheinbraun on the other hand has very specialised stock.

Both companies actually ran a sub system of 900mm routes that tended to serve brikette factories as opposed to direct to powder burn power stations.

Lignite or brown coal is actually fascinating stuff, its no where near as dense as black coal and the seams are much thicker, in some case hundreds of feet thick, its actually more like peat and is only a few million years older, it would take another several hundred million years more to transcend to black coal....which wont happen as we will have burnt it all by then.

Lignite is also one of the worst if not the worst ozone layer depleating natural resource, however it is the easiest to mine and closest to the surface but being 'lite' needs an awful amount to fire just one power station.

Anyway l digress LOL, yes your right those bucket wheel diggers were featured on Chris Barries massive machines program, but even then its hard to really comprehend how big they truely are, l'm hoping to visit next year, Rheinbraun do specialised tours of the pit and surround industry, if l cant get on one of those l've sorted some good places to take photos from.

You can go here to view the East German sites and some good images of the cranes, they use a completely different system so there cranes are smaller and styled different

http://www.ostkohle.de/html/tagebau.html

Or you can go here to see the West German ones

http://www.wisoveg.de/rheinbraun/bagger ... agger.html

Wisoveg is a very good site to learn all about lignite mining in West Germany, theres also some serious political problems with what there doing,a simple google of Rheinbraun bagger will get loads of links.

As far as MSTS goes then Rheinbraun is pretty good as a self contained system, but is basically a merry go round system between collection points and power station, LAUBAG is better as you actually go down to the pit floor to load or in some case's unload ( overburden back filling ).

RAG is pretty good and runs through heartland Rhurgebeit, just north of Wupper express 9 actually, DE ( Duisburg Eisenbahen ) is also good with there multi power steel mill locos, serves coal mines ( black coal deep bore ), coke ovens and steel industries, as well as most of Duisburg low airdraft Rhein docks, and they have a good collection of MAK locos to choose from. The other is EH, technically (D)EH, Dortmund Eisenbahn and Haven, thats at the other end of Wupper express 9 and runs round the northern bypass route as well as through the heartland, again steel mills including Krupp Thysen where l belive locos are made, a canal docks system and obviously coal, they and DE still run hot bottle trains, as far as l know only DE, EH and SNCB in Liege still do this on national owned railways, though there was a French path set up but l think even thats now stopped.

Yup theres so much going on behind the scenes in industrial freight its mind boggling, its just finding the time to fit it all in !.

Best regards

Michael

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 11:10 pm
by mattvince
Some of those monster extractors are mounted on RAILS??!! Now that's worth modelling!

Ruhrkohle (RAG) is probably the easiest to do, as most locos and stock are either done or just a case of reskinning (although I haven't seen any MSTS Vossloh/MaK G2000 with the 'half-cab').

However, the environmental damage of any extractive industry is always serious, sometimes you just wish we went straight for the green alternatives...

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 11:37 pm
by mickoo
Yup, RAG would be good, just need one of those Henschel E1200 electrics and your pretty complete stock wise, you could even use a fair bit of Wupper Express 9, mostly around Duisburg and Oberhausen / Bottrop area.

Well drilling for oil and gas isnt too bad for the enviroment....until we burn it, but huge great holes in the landscape are not good, its not necessarily the hole thats bad its the drainage they need to do to get the moisture out of the lignite, it just sucks it out of the ground for miles around and just broadens the enviromental foot print, East Germany isnt so bad as the land is not as arable and its not so deep so less moisture is sucked out of the water filled lignite.

Its a mess but as they fully acknowledge, Rheinbraun fulfills 30% of Germanys electricity, thats an awful lot to loose if you shut it down.

G2000, are you sure ?, l'm sure l have seen one somewhere, maybe it was the full cab variant, though l'm sure it was a half cab, l'll try and re-find where l saw it....which ever one it was :).

Best regards

Michael

Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 8:25 am
by mattvince
Just had another look - http://www.the-train.de has a couple of half-cab and full-cab G2000 variants, and a whole lot of other RAG stock.

Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 2:48 pm
by mickoo
Ah ha, wasnt going mad after all :), might look at a E1200 tonight, or maybe a smaller MAK, one that fits most regional industrials.

The 26Em progresses slowly

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Not an in game scene we will see for some time l fear but shows what rendering can be acheived, even in Gmax's crippled rendering options, time to move to MAX l fear :(, ouch, thats gonna hurt the old coffee pot funds !.

Best regards

Michael