Atomic Systems

mccormackpj · Post by **mccormackpj** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:05 am

fadedGlory wrote: .. The tenders were also very similar, I believe.

If I do one it would a B12/1, the version with the Belpaire (square) firebox) and full valances. It should sit nicely next to the Claud!

<IMG width="597" height="207" SRC="http://www.atomic-album.com/showPic.php/42679/B12.jpg">

fG

A very handsome loco indeed, and it would be super to have it in GER blue like the Claud! We don't have enough pre-Grouping locos for my liking .. personal taste, I know, but they had an elegance missing from the locos of the '30s. Go for it!

FG - just one question: where did you get the image? There is a curious device beside and below the smokebox which I don't recognise from other pics of the 1500s in original condition. It could be an exhaust steam injector or possibly a feed pump. It is very prominent and looks somewhat of an after-thought. Do you have any info?

BTW, the pic clearly shows the distance the fireman had to trek from the coal hole on the tender to the firehole. When you are shovelling several tons of black stuff thro' the 'hole you want to minimise all other effort! Ideally the fireman shouldn't have to move his feet to do his job well. Some GER tender locos (Claudes and 1500s included, I think) had an extended footplate which overlapped the tender, so at least the crew didn't have to struggle with the jolting, changing levels of the footplates on the loco and the tender, a useful feature copied on the BR standard tenders.

Patrick

eddief · Post by **eddief** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:41 am

mccormackpj wrote:FG - just one question: where did you get the image? There is a curious device beside and below the smokebox which I don't recognise from other pics of the 1500s in original condition. It could be an exhaust steam injector or possibly a feed pump. It is very prominent and looks somewhat of an after-thought. Do you have any info?

It could be part of the original backscene, if you look around the loco it is all white (or nearly all white) this suggests it is an ex-works photo with the loco possibly in photographic grey. When a works did a photo of a loco in photo grey it was finished as per the proper livery with lining and lettering but on grey. They also used to edit out the backscene (sometime they would by mistake remove parts of the loco as well) so as you can imagine it would be very hard to remove the detail between the boiler and frames in that shot with the technology they had then.

When I release my loco works route there is going to be a siding with a huge white wall alongside so people can take works photos like this in MSTS (be even nicer if they were in works grey

)

mccormackpj · Post by **mccormackpj** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 12:58 pm

No, I was referring to the pipework and other assorted gizmos on the side of the smokebox, not under the boiler barrel:

I have done some digging: No.1541 was the first of a batch of 20 1500 class locos built in 1920 by Beardmores of Glasgow. So what we may have here is a builder's not a GER pic. Further details should be available in the Glasgow Uni archives. The dinky tender used on the 1500s (3,700gal, 4tons) was to keep the entire loco short enough to fit on a 50' turntable. Still can't find any info on the curious pipework ..

I seem to remember (tho' I'm often wrong!) that the GER sometimes took works photographs on the Harwich/Parkeston Quay branch, as it had a lack of surrounding buildings and a useful amount of grey North Sea sky. Some railways and loco builders had movable light-coloured panels which were used to eliminate fiddly details from footplate level down, relying on touching up and/or sky for the remaining outline. In the pic of No.1541 you can see what are probably another set of tracks a little way beyond and it looks as if they used this line of rails as the 'horizon'. It was impressive what these guys achieved, but bear in mind they were working with quite sizeable - possibly glass - negatives.

In addition to 'works grey', some parts were painted red to increase contrast (eg, cylinders and framing). Then the whole loco had to be repainted and relined in its true colours! The poor paintshop .. The first Woolwich Mogul assembled in 1925 in Ireland by the MGWR was painted three times before it entered traffic: firstly in gloss black as MGWR No.49 (for the sake of their pride: they were about to become part of the Great Southern), then in lined light grey as GSR No.410 for the works photo and finally in running colours of dark grey as GSR No.372!

Patrick

eddief · Post by **eddief** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 2:19 pm

mccormackpj wrote:the whole loco had to be repainted and relined in its true colours! The poor paintshop

Not forgetting they had to redo the frames as theses were grey for the photo so the poor guys must have had an awful time doing these.

fadedGlory · Post by **fadedGlory** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:05 pm

The picture comes from a booklet titled "The locomotives of the Great Eastern Railway 1862 - 1954" by C. Langley Aldrich, published in 1955. I found it in a second-hand railway bookshop. It is a very useful little volume with loads of info and pictures on all of the GER engines.

No. 1541 was one of the batch built by Beardmore & Co in Glasgow. According to the booklet these engines were finished in a greenish-grey livery with black panelling and white lining. They were delivered in 1920/21, after Royal Blue had been replaced by grey during World War 1.

I'm not sure what the funny pipework is. It doesn't show up in any of the other pictures I have.

fG

fadedGlory · Post by **fadedGlory** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:08 pm

eddief wrote:
fadedGlory wrote:If I do one it would a B12/1, the version with the Belpaire (square) firebox) and full valances. It should sit nicely next to the Claud!
I have the drawings for the B12/1 if you want them. rwaceyw sent them to me a while back. No point me hogging them if your going to be in a position to start the project before me

Eddie, if you can copy the drawings to me I'll see what I can do. Can you scan and email them? As long as there are some key dimensions on them that should be OK.

Thanks,

fG

rwaceyw · Post by **rwaceyw** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 10:33 am

I think they're the same set as i've already sent you, fG

David

eddief · Post by **eddief** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 1:12 pm

They probably will be if David has sent you them, as they are the drawings he sent me

chrishal11 · Post by **chrishal11** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 4:13 pm

JonathonAG wrote:I was thinking more along the lines of the one that runs on the NNR, but still, worth having a go

Yeah, for me that pic looks realy weird, having only ever seen the NNR based B12/3 its quite different

thenudehamster · Post by **thenudehamster** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 9:23 pm

fadedGlory wrote:The picture comes from a booklet titled "The locomotives of the Great Eastern Railway 1862 - 1954" by C. Langley Aldrich, published in 1955. I found it in a second-hand railway bookshop. It is a very useful little volume with loads of info and pictures on all of the GER engines.

I have the Seventh Edition of the same book, published 1969 - as you say, a wonderful treatise for the GER fan. I actually bought mine new...

No. 1541 was one of the batch built by Beardmore & Co in Glasgow. According to the booklet these engines were finished in a greenish-grey livery with black panelling and white lining. They were delivered in 1920/21, after Royal Blue had been replaced by grey during World War 1.

I'm not sure what the funny pipework is. It doesn't show up in any of the other pictures I have.

fG

I have another picture of 1541, taken from a slightly different angle, which shows the same pipework with slightly better definition - though it doesn't help in identifying its purpose. I've also got a photo of the former 1542 as 8542 with an ACFI feedwater heater, but the gizmo on 1541 is absent.
I wondered if it might be some form of lubricator or steam sanding equipment, but I have no means of knowing for sure.

Incidentally, the ex-works painting for photographs of the engines in grey was because the orthochromatic film of the day was over-sensitive to blue and green, and insensitive to red; it would have produced photographs that were incorrectly shaded. I suspect only one of each class was painted this way. The likelihood would be that only the blue and maybe the vermilion parts would need repainting. Black is black on any film...

fadedGlory · Post by **fadedGlory** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 1:49 am

rwaceyw wrote:I think they're the same set as i've already sent you, fG

David

Oops - I didn't think you had sent them yet, but I've now checked my spam box and there they are!

I'll download them straightaway. Thanks a lot!

fG

fadedGlory · Post by **fadedGlory** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 9:11 am

I've now got the drawings, thanks to rwaceyw, and I'm hoping to make a start soon on this beautiful engine.

Just look at this:

<IMG width="600" height="416" SRC="http://www.atomic-album.com/showPic.php/42679/b12c.jpg">

Blue rocks

fG

rwaceyw · Post by **rwaceyw** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 10:13 am

Fantastic! Can't wait

David

mccormackpj · Post by **mccormackpj** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 11:08 am

thenudehamster wrote: I have another picture of 1541, taken from a slightly different angle, which shows the same pipework with slightly better definition - though it doesn't help in identifying its purpose. I've also got a photo of the former 1542 as 8542 with an ACFI feedwater heater, but the gizmo on 1541 is absent.
I wondered if it might be some form of lubricator or steam sanding equipment, but I have no means of knowing for sure.

I would be very interested to see this other picture you mention - my curiousity now has to be satisfied! I don't think it's a lubricator or steam sanding - far too bulky for either of those. Steam sanding is usually identifiable by either a thicker than usual sand pipe or by a second, thinner pipe joining the sand pipe just above its end. It's the proximity of the gizmo to the 'exhaust end' of the loco and the large pipe linking it to the smokebox that suggests it is using exhaust steam for some purpose. The feed pumps I have seen are visually similar to Westinghouse air pumps and this one isn't like that. So my money is on some form of exhaust steam injector, which tend to be larger than your normal live steam ones. I await correction and/or enlightenment by some GER/L&NER guru!

BTW, thank you FG for the FE Moore pic of the 1500 in ?Brentwood Cutting? - it sums up what I like about the pre-grouping railways: handsome, well-cared for and serviceable at the same time. Between you and me I consider Blue (Prussian, Royal or Sky) to be second only to Brunswick Green as the ideal loco colour

Patrick

arabiandisco · Post by **arabiandisco** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 1:39 pm

The GER certainly knew how to paint locomotives.