Why does my new loco cause an activity to crash?

PWHolmes · Post by **PWHolmes** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 12:57 pm

I have created a new loco for the W&L, it looks great and loads into the W&L no problem.

The problem is that I start off from Welshpool yard fine, but every time I approach the same spot the programme freezes and I get the "Send/Dont Send" message.

It isnt the route as I have no problems with the Earl and Countess, so it must be something wrong with the new loco.

Where do I start looking, folks? Has anyone seen any thing like this before?

I cant upload the new loco until I get this fixed.

Paul

bravedan · Post by **bravedan** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 2:51 pm

Is it particularly poly heavy???

I'll check it against my copy of the route if you'd like, you had my Email a while back..............

PWHolmes · Post by **PWHolmes** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 11:46 pm

No, there are more polys in the Earl and Countess. It seems to crash after starting to ascend a sttep rising bank. Leaving Welshpool the freeze is just at the top of the climb to the canal bridge, leaving Llanfair, it doesnt crash until just approaching the top of the stiff climb to Brynellin Viaduct (the stone one).

Paul

robin · Post by **robin** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 11:54 pm

PWHolmes wrote:No, there are more polys in the Earl and Countess. It seems to crash after starting to ascend a sttep rising bank. Leaving Welshpool the freeze is just at the top of the climb to the canal bridge, leaving Llanfair, it doesnt crash until just approaching the top of the stiff climb to Brynellin Viaduct (the stone one).

Paul

You don't say what modelling tool you are using. If it is TSm I have experienced similar myself ona couple of models. If I remember rightly one was fixed by having less parts as children to a bogie and another I think was linked to a hierarchy issue in general.

PWHolmes · Post by **PWHolmes** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 12:42 am

I am using TSm, and have had to rejig the beastie once already, reassigning new parents. It seems to recur att the same points in activities, although my theory of slopes elucidated above is a load of cobblers... when running from Cyffronydd to Llanfair, it siezes at Schoolmistresses Cottage on the level bit between Heniarth and Llanfair.

I cant understand how it can add itaself to the world so happily, start the activity perfectly and then crash.

Comparative Statistics:

Earl (works fine)

Parts 173
Vertices 6947
Polys 3825
Polys after conversion 7784

New Loco (freezes)

Parts 111
Vertices 5724
Polys 3294
Polys after conversion 6594

Paul

sp762 · Post by **sp762** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 1:36 am

I get the same thing with my new loco - except this time it crashes on exit, if it doesn't freeze during the activity.

PWHolmes · Post by **PWHolmes** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 2:36 am

Hi Mike.... have managed to fix it??

Any ideas???

I am thinking of reassigning some other parts... what do you think?

Paul

sp762 · Post by **sp762** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:20 am

I think the model is just too busy. I has a lot of fiddly valve gear and so on, plus many pipes outside the boiler.

The first thing I did was to turn the crew into a freightanim.

What I'm doing now is joining parts (boiler, smokebox & so on)

If all else fails, I will redo all the pipework with 4 point tubes instead of 6 or 8.

Try exporting all the parts (using a part file export thingy) then rebuilding the model, one part at a time, export testing until it fails, then going back one step...

let me know how you get on.

PWHolmes · Post by **PWHolmes** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 4:44 am

I have just re-assigned a load of parts from "Main" to "Footplate"... it still crashes at the same place.

jimmyladd · Post by **jimmyladd** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 8:56 am

sp762 wrote:I get the same thing with my new loco - except this time it crashes on exit, if it doesn't freeze during the activity.

Don Hinton had a similar problem with his CC4 route in various places, It turned out to be the texture of a particular bridge pillar that he had made, so maybe you have got a slightly damaged texture on your loco which is causing said crash.

jimmyladd · Post by **jimmyladd** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 8:58 am

PWHolmes wrote:I have just re-assigned a load of parts from "Main" to "Footplate"... it still crashes at the same place.

Does the model cause a crash if you are in explore mode, and how are the frame rates comparing to other loco's before the crash happens?

PWHolmes · Post by **PWHolmes** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 11:06 am

It crashes in any *!!*@#$ mode (please substitute the worst swear word you can think of for "*!!*@#$") cos I am totally p****d off with this damn thing... I have just wasted about 10 hours of my life for nowt.

I deleted all activities and tried to recreate them... now the **** loco won't appear in the ***** consist editor without that oh-so-delightful "send/dont send" message (we should send them to microsoft, y'know, the number of times I have personally seen it, multiplied by the number of trainsimmers might clog up MS and even take the $mug $mile off Bill Gates face - wouldn't you like to hit him with a frying-pan Tom and Gerry style??).

Ahhhhh!! Thats better... a bit of flaming does you good sometimes.

I have checked the parts geometry (good), checked for orphanned points (none) and untextured polys (none).

I have reassigned some parts to different parents, saved all parts and eliminated them in sections (axleboxes and suspensions first, then sandboxes and gusset plates, then the battery box, then the buffer planks and fittings, then the handrails and lamps, then the minor body fittings, then the cab superstructure, then the cab interior....

ZILCH!!!

I still get the "Send/Not send" message. So what is it... with the exception of the three main parts (four simple boxes) there is nothing else to eliminate.

How can it be a bad part... I've deleted the s*****g lot at some stage?

There was one instance where I didn't get a "S/DS" message, when trying the Consist editor. I couldn't input the beast as there was no thumbnail in the consist editor window but trying to move the "space" did give me a blue line (air brakes) in the consist window but no image of the loco.... is this some clue??

How do I check for a damaged texture file?

I think I may take up stamp collecting again and throw this lot out of the window.

Paul

robin · Post by **robin** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 11:28 am

PWHolmes wrote:It crashes in any *!!*@#$ mode (please substitute the worst swear word you can think of for "*!!*@#$") cos I am totally p****d off with this damn thing... I have just wasted about 10 hours of my life for nowt.

I deleted all activities and tried to recreate them... now the **** loco won't appear in the ***** consist editor without that oh-so-delightful "send/dont send" message (we should send them to microsoft, y'know, the number of times I have personally seen it, multiplied by the number of trainsimmers might clog up MS and even take the $mug $mile off Bill Gates face - wouldn't you like to hit him with a frying-pan Tom and Gerry style??).

Ahhhhh!! Thats better... a bit of flaming does you good sometimes.

I have checked the parts geometry (good), checked for orphanned points (none) and untextured polys (none).

I have reassigned some parts to different parents, saved all parts and eliminated them in sections (axleboxes and suspensions first, then sandboxes and gusset plates, then the battery box, then the buffer planks and fittings, then the handrails and lamps, then the minor body fittings, then the cab superstructure, then the cab interior....

ZILCH!!!

I still get the "Send/Not send" message. So what is it... with the exception of the three main parts (four simple boxes) there is nothing else to eliminate.

How can it be a bad part... I've deleted the s*****g lot at some stage?

There was one instance where I didn't get a "S/DS" message, when trying the Consist editor. I couldn't input the beast as there was no thumbnail in the consist editor window but trying to move the "space" did give me a blue line (air brakes) in the consist window but no image of the loco.... is this some clue??

How do I check for a damaged texture file?

I think I may take up stamp collecting again and throw this lot out of the window.

Paul

I should go and have cup of tea and settle down.

When you have, try rearranging the parts hierarchy and see how many seperate parts are subordinate to any bogie you may have.I f you have many delete a few and see what happens. Try to have as simple hierarchy of parts as possible with most things hanging off the main part. Also have you altered which part is the main part? or altered that part significantly. Have you imported part s from other models? If so scan through selecting each part with F2 and click OK. I am not quite sure exactly what this does but it will make sure that all components are recognising the main part in the hierarchy correclty. I have fixed issues like you are describing in this way.

cua193 · Post by **cua193** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 12:13 pm

Paul,

Haven't come in on this thread as I'm going away shortly.

One thing worth checking, though I'm sure you've done so already, could it be a bounding box problem. If the same loco fails at the same place could the boxes be wrong & colliding?

Otherwise the usual advice - add parts until you find the problem parts.

regards
Richard

PWHolmes · Post by **PWHolmes** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 2:01 pm

Hi Richard, long time no hear from.

I thought of a bounding box problem, but I have already fiddled with that to no avail... anyway, I am trying it light engine.

I have now resaved and renamed all parts to try to get some scientific method into this problem. I have numbered them 1 to 110 in some semblance of assembly order to allow me to systematically add and remove parts.. its a complete puzzle. Does MSTS have some sort of residual memory??

I have set two tests as I rebuild stage by stage, eg:

1) add some parts in a logical sequence (eg frames - "Main", footplate, bonnet (the last two being the other "parents" then wheels, axleboxes, suspension, sanders, buffer planks, etc up to the last bit of superstructure)

2) test for
i) does it show in Consist Editor and can I create a Consist
ii) Can I run it up the W&L past the freeze point by the canal bridge

If yes, then

3) add more parts

4) repeat tests

etc etc.

All goes absolutely swimmingly untill I added 5 cab sections (Cab inner, outer, roof and front and rear cab extensions - these are all very simple parts)

boing

went into Consist Editor the first time, but with a funny grey streak up the side of the loco (???), made up consist but crashed on the way out.

started deleting each of the five cab sections one-by-one down to where I was before adding them... still failed tests, now at Consist Editor stage. Deleted the bit BEFORE the cab additions... still failed at the consist editor stage. Deleted a bit more

bingo, a part loco went in OK, but who wants to drive that.

Tried adding a few more bits... failed again.

It seems that simply adding bits one by one until it fails and you have found the dodgy bit dont work here.

Could it be summat else OTHER than a dodgy component??

This is definitely the LAST loco I will build... lifes too short. (er... I said that last time!!)

Paul