Vacuum brakes on diesel loco's

micksasse · Post by **micksasse** » Sun Dec 21, 2003 6:38 pm

Hi. Apologies if this has been tackled before on these fora, but is it possible to set the brakes on a diesel loco' (rather than a DMU) to operate not on the 'self-lap' system, but with the "APPLY-RUNNING-RELEASE" vacuum brake control system, as used on UK steam loco's and also on BR DMUs, such as the Cravens 105?

I've tried copying what appear to be all the relevant files from the .eng file of the Cravens 105 DMU into the .eng file of my class 21, but for some reason when I test it in MSTS, the brakes still just behave in the 'self-lap' way.

Am I missing something here? If so, what? Or is it just something 'hard-wired' into MSTS diesel loco's?

Having written this, I can't think of a single diesel loco' which didn't have self-lapping brakes; is that because it's the only thing MSTS supports?

Thanks a lot, all.

ca55ie · Post by **ca55ie** » Sun Dec 21, 2003 6:53 pm

you might have to re-name the steps-as it might be working but with different names

sam

delticbob · Post by **delticbob** » Sun Dec 21, 2003 9:31 pm

Give up NOW

before it becomes an obsession (speaks from experience).

If you have not already done so, you might get some help from the "TECH DOCS" that come with the MSTS CD's. One of them ( - stops to rummage under computer - ) is a "eng & wag file reference guide". At the rear of this is a section on brakes which lists the names, & order in which they should be used, of the brake positions.

Having decided what you want to use, your notch numbers must then be tranfered into the brake controller in the .cvf file.

It is an interesting battle with what you want & what MSTS will deliver.

As you may find out, working diesel brakes in air brake mode is a doddle, working steam brakes in vacuum mode is also a doddle. Making diesel loco's work properly in vacuum is erm problomatical. This is because they have air brakes on the loco, even if its vacuum on the train.

Best of luck

Bob

micksasse · Post by **micksasse** » Sun Dec 21, 2003 11:56 pm

Hmm, this sounds very believable, Bob. It does strike me, given the standard of the physics on your Deltics, that if it could be done, it would have been by you by now...

The thing which particularly bugs me is that, the way MSTS works, you can't partially release (self-lapping) train brakes, whereas the 'proper' "apply-running-release" vacuum operation for steam loco's and DMU's lets you do this perfectly well. Surely it is unprototypical for an air- or vacuum-braked passenger train not to be able to release the brakes partially?

I have, as I say, tried to copy the relevant bits from Cravens DMU .eng file, including renaming the steps and copying the relevant bit of the .cvf file, but to no avail.

This is all sounding a bit traumatic - I think I'd better give up. As I say, given the amount of talent around here (and in other countries), the more I think about it, if it were possible someone would have done it by now, given the obviousness of the inaccuracy!

Cheers each (goes off to prove an anti-MS point by fixing a dash-9 stylee dynamic brake to North British's finest... and perhaps a nice bell too...)

jimmyladd · Post by **jimmyladd** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 12:26 pm

Are you trying to use loco air brakes and train vacuum brakes?

jbilton · Post by **jbilton** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 1:39 pm

Hi
You'll have to cheat and use EP brakes

...only problem is if you have a vacuum gauge...it'll not move...and you'll have to convert stock.
You can get round the vacuum gauge by editing the cvf file.

micksasse · Post by **micksasse** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 10:18 pm

jimmyladd wrote:Are you trying to use loco air brakes and train vacuum brakes?

Yes.

It just ain't gonna happen, is it? Have reverted to a more conventional set-up. Loco' about to be sent out for testing; if it proves OK, it should be uploaded within a few days and ready to blow cylinder-heads and spew oil over the MSTS world by the new year