Possible TDB error?

[coolhand101]

Hi
Route editor reports no problems on my route when starting and exiting the program however when i load up MSTS it hangs on "Setting up the simulation" showing 21 progress bars. When i replace the TDB with one three days ago MSTS loads 100% but my "new" objects are missing.
I don't really want to lose 3 days works but does anyone know what to look for in the TDB to cause this hang? I have not laid any new track only speeds and signals. I will be grateful for any suggestions.

Thanks

[Buckeye]

Hi coolhand 101.
The Route Builders Guide recommends leaving all signals and speeds until all trackwork is completed.
So the sigcfg.dat and sigscr.dat may need replacing with fresh files either a backup or maybe create within a new temp route.
Good luck.
Buckeye.

[coolhand101]

Hi coolhand 101.
The Route Builders Guide recommends leaving all signals and speeds until all trackwork is completed.
So the sigcfg.dat and sigscr.dat may need replacing with fresh files either a backup or maybe create within a new temp route.
Good luck.
Buckeye.

The trackwork was already completed, i was laying in new speeds and signals. Because RE reported no problems after starting, saving and exiting i cannot understand why MSTS wont load.
Replace them files you mention with backups but the problem remains. I was making whole backups of the route daily but with confidence in my RE skils this became less. I can understand if RE reported errors and faults to my problem but it doesnt so how can you know there is a problem until it's to late. I have to search indepth again to see if my answer is there, which i really do need for my confidence in RE again

Thanks

[Buckeye]

Hi coolhand 101.
Seems to me if a backup works 100% then use it to regain the use of RE. Objects can be replaced and work from over three days is a small price to pay.
Have fun.
Buckeye.

[coolhand101]

Hi coolhand 101.
Seems to me if a backup works 100% then use it to regain the use of RE. Objects can be replaced and work from over three days is a small price to pay.
Have fun.
Buckeye.

Thats the thing, RE works 100% and reports no errors on my route however in MSTS the sim hangs on "setting up simulation". Im tracing back my steps one by one as the world files don't seem to contain any errors, by the looks of things this looks like a "ghost" is present which im trying to track down. Ok, i got a TDB from 4 days ago that works 100% in the sim and i know for a fact that yesterday my original TDB was working upto a certain time yesterday so im halfway rechecking this in RE.

Thanks

[coolhand101]

I cannot get this problem fixed. If im going to lose my 3 days of work then in future im going to have to stop RE and check the route in MSTS every hour or so to make sure it can run as RE cannot report this problem.
Replacing the TDB with one 3 days earlier messes up some signals and 50% of the speed boards are place wrong.
I wait for anymore answers before i restart my work from 3 days ago(4 now).

Thanks

[drjimi]

Just a guess, but based on experience. Any chance you have a signal of non-NORMAL type as the first signal on a path? If so, the sim will behave that way. You need a Dummy Trackstart (kudos to Tony Formoso for solving this problem originally IIRC) or NORMAL type signal as the first on any path. I ran into this on the LUL District, where I had some shunt signals controlling exit from sidings. Needed a Trackstart right at the buffers facing the same direction as the shunt to fix it.

Best, Jimi

[coolhand101]

Just a guess, but based on experience. Any chance you have a signal of non-NORMAL type as the first signal on a path? If so, the sim will behave that way. You need a Dummy Trackstart (kudos to Tony Formoso for solving this problem originally IIRC) or NORMAL type signal as the first on any path. I ran into this on the LUL District, where I had some shunt signals controlling exit from sidings. Needed a Trackstart right at the buffers facing the same direction as the shunt to fix it.

Best, Jimi

Hmm this could be the problem, i just know is something to with the signals. I get on to this right away, big thanks!

[coolhand101]

Well i was pretty sure that could have been it unless i missed something because MSTS still hangs. It also hangs the activity editor but NOT the route editor. I remember when first starting work on this route, the hanging would occur due to me deleting some track start markers.

[Buckeye]

Always good practice to give MSTS a run after each edit of the RE.
All you can do is delete one item per time and try again. Very time consuming I know but time is on our side.
Just a thought you said all trackwork was finished so there are no missing end nodes, this will cause a hang situation. All track must end with either a buffer or a track piece NO turnouts. This error shows when switching track.
This is one for the error database when you solve it, which you will,
Have fun.
Buckeye.

[coolhand101]

Yep, im starting my second sweep now in RE. I have only laid speed restrictions and signals so one of these is hanging MSTS on startup, i only wish RE could report this kind of problem.

Thanks

[Buckeye]

Have you installed an item that may have replaced the tsection.dat file, this would stop the sim in its tracks oop's.
Buckeye.

[coolhand101]

Have you installed an item that may have replaced the tsection.dat file, this would stop the sim in its tracks oop's.
Buckeye.

Nope but as you mention it i just replace the latest tsection as a precaution. I read on another thread that when in RE use the camera mode to manual input all the world files to locate errors, there were only two errors and both were dummy track start signals, it deleted them so i replace them again and no errors were reported but MSTS still hangs on the loading screen. Im running out of ideals, what ever the problem is it only hangs AE and MSTS, the RE works 100%.

Thanks

[drjimi]

My $$$ is still on a non-normal signal without a Normal preceding it. Finding those can be tricky, and there's still a bug in the currently released District Line where a Dummy Trackstart is missing on 32 road siding at Ealing Common Dpt. But in that case the hang doesn't occur unless a path is opened to 32 road. Here's why.

Depot 11 road is used in several activities. Each end leads to an outlet shunt signal at the west (Ealing) and east (Acton) ends. Should the player (in explore mode) be on 11 road WB and change the points ahead, the path is set to 32 road siding (behind Ealing Common). The sim hangs, but why? The shunt signal ahead has 'normal' signals behind it, else it would always hang. What has happened is that the path now opened to 32 road is really bi-directional. If you follow the east path from 32 road, through 11 road and out to the EB outlet you will bump into (surprise) the EB outlet shunt - which now doesn't have a normal signal behind it on the path from 32 road. It did have one when the points were normal (the Ealing Common starter on the main line). Solution - put a Dummy Trackstart on 32 road at the buffers facing east (into the depot).

On general principal I now put a Dummy Trackstart on EVERY siding or track start location facing 'inward' as I can never be sure that a path won't open up (sometimes from a far-flung location to somewhere behind me) and cause an issue. In my LUL signal set this holds true for shunts (type = shunting), repeaters (type = distance), theater displays (type = info) and the recent multi-home track circuit repeaters (type = repeater). It seems to me that a type of Normal is required at all track starts to establish an initial 'state' and 'ripple triggering' local signals states based on the lookahead number. If that can not be done, the sim seems to 'hang' (not actually crash).

Maybe a question I should have asked at the outset -- do you have signals of non-NORMAL type in use? From your initial response I think so. Also - check for signals with links that are not assigned to tracks. I'd bet, even if this turns out not to be a non-normal issue, that examining every signal closely will find a culprit.

[coolhand101]

My $$$ is still on a non-normal signal without a Normal preceding it. Finding those can be tricky, and there's still a bug in the currently released District Line where a Dummy Trackstart is missing on 32 road siding at Ealing Common Dpt. But in that case the hang doesn't occur unless a path is opened to 32 road. Here's why.

Depot 11 road is used in several activities. Each end leads to an outlet shunt signal at the west (Ealing) and east (Acton) ends. Should the player (in explore mode) be on 11 road WB and change the points ahead, the path is set to 32 road siding (behind Ealing Common). The sim hangs, but why? The shunt signal ahead has 'normal' signals behind it, else it would always hang. What has happened is that the path now opened to 32 road is really bi-directional. If you follow the east path from 32 road, through 11 road and out to the EB outlet you will bump into (surprise) the EB outlet shunt - which now doesn't have a normal signal behind it on the path from 32 road. It did have one when the points were normal (the Ealing Common starter on the main line). Solution - put a Dummy Trackstart on 32 road at the buffers facing east (into the depot).

On general principal I now put a Dummy Trackstart on EVERY siding or track start location facing 'inward' as I can never be sure that a path won't open up (sometimes from a far-flung location to somewhere behind me) and cause an issue. In my LUL signal set this holds true for shunts (type = shunting), repeaters (type = distance), theater displays (type = info) and the recent multi-home track circuit repeaters (type = repeater). It seems to me that a type of Normal is required at all track starts to establish an initial 'state' and 'ripple triggering' local signals states based on the lookahead number. If that can not be done, the sim seems to 'hang' (not actually crash).

Maybe a question I should have asked at the outset -- do you have signals of non-NORMAL type in use? From your initial response I think so. Also - check for signals with links that are not assigned to tracks. I'd bet, even if this turns out not to be a non-normal issue, that examining every signal closely will find a culprit.

Yes i have non-NORMAL signals but a trackstart is present. I will check signals with links not assigned to tracks, and while im at it i gonna check all the signals that i place from memory couple of days ago. I take it there is no utilty that can check the features you described? I also believe it's a non-NORMAL signal but i just can't seem to find it!!! When you say a track start facing "inwards" you mean the flat side is on approach?


Thanks