Why dont I have any signals????

[PWHolmes]

Yet another obvious one for all you experience chaps!!!!

I dont seem to have any signals to select in my Object Selector, other than the funny Japanese thingie. I have copied all objects from my favourite route and the shape files are there, but they just dont come up as an option in Object Selector.

According to Michael Vones book, they should just be treated the same as any other object but they are different somehow.

For example, the Jap signal I have as the only option does not appear in the .ref file at all and yet is still available in the Object Selector. Similarly, when I look at the files for my favourite route, there are NO signals at all in the .ref file, but they are still there and work.

What am I doing wrong???

Paul

[MichaelGreenhill]

Download REFManager from train-sim.com, then update your .ref file that way. BUT MAKE SURE YOU FILL IN EVERYTHING 100% CORRECTLY!!!!! It is possible to change any alterations you made to the .ref file thry REFMan, but its an absolute b****** to do.

Mike

[johny]

Unless you copy and paste the text from the original route sigcfg.dat and sigscr.dat files to your new route sigcfg.dat and sigscr.dat files you will not see the signals in the object selector. Signals are treated differently to other objects as they are animate and interact with the track. There is no entry to be made in the route.ref file. The signals are then listed under Track Objects.

It would pay you to download the the UKLQ Semaphore Kit from this site, even if you don't intend to use those signals, and use the instructions contained in that kit's readme.txt file, particularly with regard to the copying and pasting exercise and the use of WordPad and not Notepad.

I am including an extract fom the readm.txt file for a new signal kit currently being prepared for release. Use the relevant bits to suite your situation but do heed the WARNINGS.

"INSTALLATION
============

WARNING:

DO NOT COPY THE SIGCFG.DAT AND SIGSCR.DAT FILES CONTAINED IN THIS SIGNAL KIT DIRECTLY INTO THE ROUTE FOLDER OF A ROUTE WITH SIGNALLING ALREADY INSTALLED, MSTS ROUTE EDITOR WILL COMPLAIN IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS. HOWEVER, IF ALL PREVIOUSLY INSTALLED SIGNALLING HAS BEEN REMOVED THEN IT IS SAFE TO COPY THESE FILES DIRECT. IT MUST BE POINTED OUT THAT THERE IS A DANGER THAT IT ONLY REQUIRES ONE ORIGINAL SIGNAL TO BE MISSED AND THE ROUTE EDITOR WILL COMPLAIN.

1. A Route with no Signals (New Route)

a. Unzip the archive into a temporary folder.
b. Copy the contents of the archive Shapes folder to the Shapes folder of the Route to be signalled.
c. Copy the contents of of the archive Textures folder to the Textures folder of the Route to be signalled.
d. Copy the sigscr.dat and sigcfg.dat file to the Route folder.
e. Using WordPad (NOT Notepad) copy and paste the text from the archive AddToYourRoute.ref file into the Route.ref file.

2. A Route with Signals already installed.

a. Carry out the steps 1.a. to 1.c. inclusive.
b. Using Wordpad (Not Notepad) open the archive sigcfg.dat file and copy and paste all the SignalTypes text including tabs and brackets to the Route sigcfg.dat file. Increase the value of the number of SignalTypes by 6.
c. Using Wordpad (NOT Notepad) copy and paste all the SignalShapes text including tabs and brackets from the archive sigcfg.dat file to the Route sigscr.dat file. Increase the value of the number of SignalShapes by 18.
e. Save and exit the Route sigscr.dat file.
f. Using WordPad (NOT Notepad) open the archive sigscr.dat file and copy and paste all the Signal Type Logic Scripts text including the forward slashes to the Route sigscr.dat file.
g. Save and exit the Route sigscr.dat file.
h. Carry out step 1.e."

Please note the AddToYourRoute.ref is for brackets and gantries which are inanimate objects.

John

[PWHolmes]

Thanks John, I have followed your advice and downloaded the upper quadrant LMS/BR signals that I wanted in the first place.... and absolutely superb they are. I now have them in my selector window and can place them on my layout with ease.

That is when it all goes wrong!!!!!!

What the h*** are the rule for placing signals??????

Plain semaphores are OK but junction signals and gantries have completely b******d me!!!!

I have two junction signals on the layout. Both are giving me gypp! The first will only connect after a great deal of difficulty and many tries, when I do get it to connect, I cannot then change it if I have done it wrong. The lamps light and both arms go up in RE (sometimes), but when I try to save the layout or if I do manage to save it when I try to rebuild the databases, it tells me that it cannot detect the marker or something is duplicated and the world is out of synch (or something like that) and prompts me to delete it. Sometimes I get a message that it aint connected!!!!

The other junction signal connects OK and the lamps light, and in EXPLORE ROUTE gives a correct aspect when it is passed in reverse, ie clearing for the route I have come off, and this bobs neatly up and down whenever the junction points are changed..... but the junction arm refuses to move.

I though it was all going too well having read your collected tales of woe. I think I'll take up fishing again.

I have installed, deleted, reinstalled, deleted etc etc etc for the last 4 hours to no avail.... thank heavens I live in Taiwan and the pubs are open until 2am..... I'm going for a beer (or ten!)!!!!!!!!!

Paul

[johny]

Have you set the junction links correctly? When you place the JCT signals you only have one red pyramid for all the signals, select the pyramid and right click and the signal properties box should open. Select the right card-file labelled Signal and you should see a number of link buttons, two or more. Select each button in turn and a route map opens in which you set which route is for that signal, this is done by placing the cursor over the route after the junction, the black line goes dark red and you select by clicking the mouse and the route turns green.

Have not heard of junction signals working back to front before.

John

[PWHolmes]

Yes, Ive done all that and yes, it is simple..... but it still dont work!

Forgetting the signal that gives me the "out of synch" error and makes me delete it (Ill look at that tomorrow), the junction signal that seems to be happy where it is and completely at sych with the world doesn't operate correctly. Its OK when I install it and if I go past it in EXPLORE ROUTE and change the points the two signal arms raise alternatively to correspond to the route setting, and a simple test activity to run past and set back into the siding works fine too....... until I log off and/or rebuild the track database at which point the signal wire to the junction arm breaks and will not work no matter what I do. So going past it gives me an "Activity ended, signal passed at red".

If I go into RE and then properties, it tells me that "Signal head links set up correctly"......... then why dont it work????????????

Paul

[PWHolmes]

Even more information for you clever people to advise me on. I have tried to put the other ("out of synch") signal in place. Yes... its so simply sits there, so simply connects up to the route, passes the test activity with flying colours and then when I log out and try to either log in or rebuild the database, I get the following destructive errors messages:

Message 1:

"Object on tile -12349, 14850 couldn't load track item of type signal marker. Delete object (save to make final)"

and so I delete it, cos its prompting me to, there then follows the following message:

"Unable to get the track database instance for a signal head. Thus indicates that the world files and track database files(s) are out of synch. Lon (whatever) Lat (whatever), world tile -12349, 14850 (x, y, z co-ordinates).

Has anyone seen this before and what do I do about it?????

Paul

(Going MAD in Taiwan!!!!!)

[johny]

Is this a new route you're building? If it is you should get all of your track down first and install your signals after rebuilding the trackbase. If signals are installed and the trackbase then rebuilt all those junction links get broken.

Some time time ago, Tim Court gave a sequence he uses when doing his excellent routes and I have a printed copy on the side of my PC to remind me.

Here it is:

Build track
Place mile posts
Add roads and bridges
Rebuild track database
Signal the route
Add scenery
Add speed limits

So signalling is the third last thing to do. Leave the signals you have installed and finish off the track laying, do your final rebuild of track database and then reset the links for all the signals already installed and install additional signalling you require and don't touch the rebuild button.


I didn't spot the reference to rebuilding track database in one of your earlier posts, sorry about that.

John

[PWHolmes]

Thanks for the tip, John, I have gone back to an earlier version before I put and signals in. I reckon that the last one should be just about knackered by now.

I am now putting in the roads before I do the FINAL Rebuild Track Database. Does the same restriction apply to car spawners?? eg should I build the roads and do a RTD BEFORE I add carspawners, or does it not matter?

Paul

[johny]

I don't know as I've never got that far with a route, yet. Perhaps one of the experienced route builders can advise on this.

John

[cribbo]

After rebuilding the track database on a route I am building I have noticed than certain signal links get "corrupted". This seems to effect the signal logic sections of the sigscr.dat file that make calls the route_set() function. When re-editing the signal the links appear to be intact but if you change the link to some other track and then change then back to the correct link then the signal does work correctly. However not all signals lose their links and correct me if I'm wrong but seems to affect signals with link track nodes spanning across tile boundaries. I suspect that during the rebuild as RE works it way a tile at time and creates "provisional" track nodes in its database then if one of these form the first part of the signal's link then it becomes the link node and when the node is later extended to its true length the signal link is not updated and when the game is played the link doesn't work.

[saddletank]

I don't know as I've never got that far with a route, yet. Perhaps one of the experienced route builders can advise on this.

John

In he past I have put in roads as I go and these do not seem to have caused problems. Howver the route I built had no carspawners anyway, so I would definitely advise leaving car spawners as one of the very last things you do (add it to Tim Court's list as supplied by John above near the bottom). I have haerd one or two route builders (e.g. Rich Garber) advise to leave roads to he end so the car spawner may be what he means.

I would leave out all level crossings and other animated track gates like Decapods private siding gates and Mike Wilson's engine shed doors to last with the car spawners too, I have had issues with these in the past.

The other construction tip worth following is to lay static scenery in sequence AWAY from the track into the distance. This is apparently to do with the game calculations of what to draw/render and if you place a distant object first and hen hide it with a nearer one it will still draw the distant one even though it is not visible to the eye. So start with trackside furniture first and work away to the incidentals furthest off.