Terrain Made in Gmax ??

qzdcg8 · Post by **qzdcg8** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:36 pm

peterholton wrote:Paul: if you have Photoshop, it's possible to open the raw terrain data from MSTS, which is saved as a 256 x 256 x 16bit greyscale bitmap, re-sample and save it as an 8-bit greyscale bitmap.
This can then be used as a displacement map, and, with a little manipulation, can make terrain models that can accurately line up with existing terrain: I used this method to make Corfe Castle.

Peter

The 16 bit values give you a height between H1 and H2. The values of H1 and H2 in metres are defined by 8 bytes in the T file!

PaulSpringthorpe · Post by **PaulSpringthorpe** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:57 pm

Hi Peter,

I have paintshop pro which has a RAW option but when I opened them up I just got a black image. DO you know which options I should use when I open the file ??

Do you know what the RAW files are and how they relate to the associated T files ??

I'm going to do a search for more info on this so apologies if I'm asking a question that is already coverd on this forum

Thanks.

Regards
Paul

peterholton wrote:Paul: if you have Photoshop, it's possible to open the raw terrain data from MSTS, which is saved as a 256 x 256 x 16bit greyscale bitmap, re-sample and save it as an 8-bit greyscale bitmap.
This can then be used as a displacement map, and, with a little manipulation, can make terrain models that can accurately line up with existing terrain: I used this method to make Corfe Castle.

Peter

PaulSpringthorpe · Post by **PaulSpringthorpe** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:58 pm

Hi Steve,

I just asked a question and hadn't spotted that you had already answered it.

Many thanks. I've obviously got a lot to learn.

Cheers
Paul

qzdcg8 wrote:
peterholton wrote:Paul: if you have Photoshop, it's possible to open the raw terrain data from MSTS, which is saved as a 256 x 256 x 16bit greyscale bitmap, re-sample and save it as an 8-bit greyscale bitmap.
This can then be used as a displacement map, and, with a little manipulation, can make terrain models that can accurately line up with existing terrain: I used this method to make Corfe Castle.

Peter
The 16 bit values give you a height between H1 and H2. The values of H1 and H2 in metres are defined by 8 bytes in the T file!

davelong · Post by **davelong** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 4:17 pm

timbooth wrote:
Also, with more advanced 'MSTS compatible' simulators on the way I wouldn't waste any time on alternative terrain for MSTS - these should offer better terrain resolution, as its one of the main gripes of MSTS.

Hi Tim,
Just wondering what was meant by the above ad what kind of things are on the way, just joined the MSTS ranks, unhappy to hear there will be no MSTS2, and i'm now used to much upgraded and amazing scenery from MSFS2004.

Kind regards
Dave L

felixbicycle · Post by **felixbicycle** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 12:40 am

davelong wrote:
timbooth wrote:
Also, with more advanced 'MSTS compatible' simulators on the way I wouldn't waste any time on alternative terrain for MSTS - these should offer better terrain resolution, as its one of the main gripes of MSTS.
Hi Tim,
Just wondering what was meant by the above ad what kind of things are on the way, just joined the MSTS ranks, unhappy to hear there will be no MSTS2, and i'm now used to much upgraded and amazing scenery from MSFS2004.

Kind regards
Dave L

Im also interested in this comment if there is any further info
Regards
Felix

thenudehamster · Post by **thenudehamster** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:26 am

Take a look at the TrainMaster forum for some ideas of one of the simulators, http://www.trainartisan.com for the other major player.

Don't expect either simulator to be published for at least a year - miracles have happened before, but don't count on them.

timbooth · Post by **timbooth** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:50 am

Visit the TrainMaster forum for details of their product under development - TMTS. See also trainartisan.com for another possible product.

The bugs and limitations in MSTS are here to stay, so the future lies beyond MSTS. It should be possible to import your MSTS route and update the trackbed with higher resolution terrain - hopefully.

peterholton · Post by **peterholton** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:04 am

PaulSpringthorpe wrote:Hi Peter,

I have paintshop pro which has a RAW option but when I opened them up I just got a black image. DO you know which options I should use when I open the file ??

<snip>

Thanks.

Regards
Paul

Hi, Paul,

I don't know if PSP can open 16-bit greyscale files: Photoshop can, but can't save or perform many operations on them: also I think Gmax and Max only accept 8-bit greyscale displacement maps.

If you open the relevant _y.raw file in PS: the parameters required are:
dimensions: 256 x 256 pixels
channels: 1
bit depth: 16 bit
byte order: IBM PC

example: resampled 8-bit bitmap:
http://www.3dtspeter.co.uk/images/-11ccc5e4_y.bmp

Steve's right about the relationship between the .raw and .T data: however, that's a bit advanced for my limited brain, so I did it by trial and error: adjust the scaling and strength of your displacement map until it fits: if you start with a plane mesh object 256 x 256 segments 1000m square and fit your displacement map to it you should be somewhere near: this can always be cut down or optimised later.

Peter

peterholton · Post by **peterholton** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:05 am

btw, I claim no originality for any of the above: this was all discovered early on over at train-sim.com

Peter

PaulSpringthorpe · Post by **PaulSpringthorpe** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 10:30 am

Hi Peter,

Thanks for the extra info I'll give it a try.

Cheers

Paul

peterholton wrote:
PaulSpringthorpe wrote:Hi Peter,

I have paintshop pro which has a RAW option but when I opened them up I just got a black image. DO you know which options I should use when I open the file ??

<snip>

Thanks.

Regards
Paul
Hi, Paul,

I don't know if PSP can open 16-bit greyscale files: Photoshop can, but can't save or perform many operations on them: also I think Gmax and Max only accept 8-bit greyscale displacement maps.

If you open the relevant _y.raw file in PS: the parameters required are:
dimensions: 256 x 256 pixels
channels: 1
bit depth: 16 bit
byte order: IBM PC

example: resampled 8-bit bitmap:
http://www.3dtspeter.co.uk/images/-11ccc5e4_y.bmp

Steve's right about the relationship between the .raw and .T data: however, that's a bit advanced for my limited brain, so I did it by trial and error: adjust the scaling and strength of your displacement map until it fits: if you start with a plane mesh object 256 x 256 segments 1000m square and fit your displacement map to it you should be somewhere near: this can always be cut down or optimised later.

Peter

PaulSpringthorpe · Post by **PaulSpringthorpe** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 10:32 am

Hi Tim,

I'll take a look at these. It might be an idea to make some progress in MSTS in the hope that the future will bring something better.

Thanks

Regards
Paul

timbooth wrote:Visit the TrainMaster forum for details of their product under development - TMTS. See also trainartisan.com for another possible product.

The bugs and limitations in MSTS are here to stay, so the future lies beyond MSTS. It should be possible to import your MSTS route and update the trackbed with higher resolution terrain - hopefully.

gopher · Post by **gopher** » Sat Oct 30, 2004 11:18 pm

Just a note on using models for embankments and cuttings. Although I have been able to use these on single track routes I have been experimenting with them on double/multiple track configurations. The main problem is the trainspotter view (key 4) keeps jumping inside the embankments and cuttings. On a single track with narrow embankments and cuttings this is fairly infrequent but on double and greater formations this happens most of the time. I have not been able to find a satisfactory solution to this so don't recommend them for anything but single track routes.

Gordon

mickoo · Post by **mickoo** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 12:53 pm

To further add, 3D modeled imbankments can have shadows...or so l belive, l think theres a setting in RE when you place the item into the sim, its a tick box and enables it to accept shadows from the rolling stock.

As far as l know theres no way to stop you 'going underground' with 3D scenery, also l never figured on leaving the mesh at 2x and using 3D, does this figure in frame rates ?, l've always used 0x for max resolution in terrain, another test to try this afternoon

.

Best regards

Michael

peterholton · Post by **peterholton** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 1:22 pm

Camera collision detection isn't enabled in MSTS, so a major pain: tried all sorts of ways around it for the seawall sections on the Cambrian, but no dice.

Peter

longbow · Post by **longbow** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 1:58 pm

I agree with Peter's comments about F4 view problems with terrain shapes - you get this sometimes with the Thames Mersey route on the approaches to Euston. But I haven't found any F4 problems with double track embankment shapes.