War Time Route?

BR7MT · Post by **BR7MT** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 3:27 pm

A memory stirs...

... I think the Bluearrow TS Severn Valley Railway 2 route when it is released will be in the 1920's to 1940's time period and there was some mention of a war-time theme.

But I am pretty sure this is a long way from release.

regards

Dan

thenudehamster · Post by **thenudehamster** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 9:46 pm

As this country was never actually invaded, it seems to me that all any 'wartime scenario' would do is to reawaken the nostalgia for the days when 'backs were against the wall', 'we all pulled together' and everybody was 'for' us and 'against' them.
I'd like to see some - though to be authentic, you'd need modified .eng files for the tiny blackout lamps, low light signals, no interior lights in coaches...

felixbicycle · Post by **felixbicycle** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 1:07 am

"Trains with Pete Waterman" was quite an eye opener (sunday 5.30pm Ch4) Incredible wartime railway footage ! Including armoured RH&DR trains with anti-aircraft guns etc.
An interesting fact: Out of all the bombing in WW2 Britain only 8 locos were ever damaged beyond repair (in the whole war)

Garthion · Post by **Garthion** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 6:16 pm

How about setting it in a fictional location, where there has been some accidental bombing, but generally things are normal, you could use some normal buildings as well as custom bomb damaged buildings, and in the sky could be the RAF!
The route needn't be taht long, long enough that troop trains seem to go somewhere but not overly long, it could be by the sea or in the middle of the country, either way, night time running would be fun!
Just my thoughts, I'd be willing to make activities if a route were creted on such a theme, might do it next year myself, after I've finished my current project.

lateagain · Post by **lateagain** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:09 pm

nwallace wrote:
bigvern wrote:The other issue is politics. Some preserved railways have run into trouble as it is having wartime themed days, with objections to people "role playing" by strutting around in German uniforms and jackboots replete with swastikas and SS insignia. Hasten to add I don't have strong views either way on that subject. Wars happen, indeed are still going on as the horrific news from Iraq tonight bears testimony and they are a part of our history as much as any peacetime era. It could be done but would have to done very, very sensitively. It's not necessarily a huge step from crossing a battlefield to that ominous brick gateway at Auschwitz...

Its almost like people try to ignore that Musolini/Hitler existed.

Niall,

Although I see "where you're coming from" and share some reservations about PC "revisionist" portrayals of history I'd have to say that a recent trip with my daughter to the War Museum here in London gave me the chance to see the only model railway that ever stopped me in my tracks and made me sad.

In the holocaust section there is a scale model of Auschwitz and the sidings for the "transports" (trains) that bought people to this terrible place. It's a beautifully accurate and scaled model of the camp, the train and the hundreds of people that have just disembarked from that train, white with the snow of winter. I've seen film of the real thing dozens of times.

There was just something about the scale of the model and the hundreds of figures in it that gave a perspective of the enormity of these transports. Even actual footage of the events could not portray the true scale of a single transport in the way that this model does.

Don't get me wrong here. I'm not being "holier than thou". I've got combat flight Sims and have enjoyed shooting up the odd train or twelve.... It's just that I can't see how there can be a "fun" way to incorporate war into Train Sims? All the railways, ours and â€œtheirsâ€

chrisj94 · Post by **chrisj94** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:38 pm

I really can see where your coming from,but i disagree that there cant be a War based route.
It dosnt meen there is to be fighting or killing,just a War setting.
Ie-buildings with blackouts,ARPs patrolling streets,the crakle of bomb blasts inn the background,rather than being on the battle front and seeing loads of corpses,which would be just inaprorpriate.
thanks
all the best
Chris

BR7MT · Post by **BR7MT** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:50 pm

Well there is the people aspect as Niall mentioned above, then there is the atmosphere aspect mentioned by Chris.

I think any war time route must avoid 'blood and guts' at all costs. Have bombed out buildings with warning signs around them but avoid showing casualties.

Another aspect would be the varied freight activities. For instance delivering a large 16" navy gun to a dock yard for fitting to a capital ship. Freights delivering vehicles etc. in the build up to D-Day as mentioned on the most recent episode of "Trains with Pete Waterman" on Channel 4.

Just ideas to mull over.

regards

Dan

lateagain · Post by **lateagain** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:02 pm

Chris, Dan,

I think you've hit the nail on the head here. It would have to be about atmosphere, scenery and by any other standards, bizarre activities.

Trouble is that's a hell of a lot of work for the route builder and would the necessary changes be feasible in terms of lighting (searchlights, fires etc.) and traffic for activities. Scenery would have to include damaged buildings and track. Buildings with sandbags and taped up windows etc.

I remember my father telling me how long and stop start journeys were when he tried to return to London on leave from Glasgow and Plymouth. Hours of stop/start travel mostly at slow speeds and in the blackout. Not easy to portray in an interesting an playable way?

I can't help feel that we need a more dynamic "engine" to hang a convincing simulation of this period on? After all we can't even have dynamic weather.

I'm sure you could get a good "period feel" with the existing engine, but it would still be a lot of work.

Geoff

BR7MT · Post by **BR7MT** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:16 pm

Maybe it would be the last great test of the MSTS game engine.

Can it cope with night time searchlights?

Is it capable of doing distant flashes to portray air raids happening in the distance at night? (Probably, I believe lightning does this)

Pleanty of animated objects, I know the SVR has got a Spitfire, Hurricane and Lancaster as animated scenery objects.

How difficult would it be to recreate say Southampton docks with all the Operation Overlord fleet?

Thinking about it there are two possible route areas that could be used for a war time route. These would be Kent lines and the Newbury and Southampton line. The latter would be for D-Day as one of the two lines was used to store whole freight trains on in advance of the landings. The former would be better for the Battle of Britain period in the summer of 1940.

Again these are just things to think about.

regards

Dan

BluebellStepney · Post by **BluebellStepney** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 1:02 pm

How about setting it in a fictional location, where there has been some accidental bombing, but generally things are normal, you could use some normal buildings as well as custom bomb damaged buildings, and in the sky could be the RAF!
The route needn't be taht long, long enough that troop trains seem to go somewhere but not overly long, it could be by the sea or in the middle of the country, either way, night time running would be fun!
.

Hmm... an interesting problem. How about rather than a regular railway during a war period, an Army railway. (coincidential that I have just released Longmoor Military Railway No 600!

)

Seriously this seems to fit the criterium, as people wouldn't be getting killed (not being shown, certainly), Bomb damage could be shown, any Invasion would be an army training exercise, period dress (ARPs, Dad's Army...) and there are already files available for this. Already mentioned are the Decapod's Railway gun, Dean Goods, and there are also countless J94 Austerities, 2-10-0 and 2-8-0 Riddles engines.

Regarding activities, 3DTS released a wartime themed activity for the Cambrian, and I think MS had a war themed activity on the default Innsbruck lin, although I can't be sure, not having it installed.

One last point, for warime information , watch the film "The Train." It has much information regarding the French Railways and even has an armoured (German) steam engine with built in troop carrier.

chrisj94 · Post by **chrisj94** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 5:05 pm

MMM J94s!

chrisj94 · Post by **chrisj94** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 6:18 pm

Well im up for it!
I can do track and scenery if someone else wants to add some effects.ie,bomb blasts,air raid sirens.
Thanks
Chris

camelot73082 · Post by **camelot73082** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:44 pm

I think that there should be a Kent and east sussex railway

one of the activits could be moving one of the massive coastal artilary guns

add a few spitfires/109s bombed buildings barrage balloons sand bags Buzzbombs and bombshelters

D-day activitys
PLUTO activitys
Take winston churchhill to tenterton and back
move a munitions train t
there is alreay a coastal artilary gun on uktrainsim and a WD austerity to go with it all the stuff is there

someone should try it my skills just arnt up to it

decapod · Post by **decapod** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:51 pm

The gun on UKTS is the actual model used on the K&ESR.

However, there were no Austerities used - One of 3 Black WD Dean Goods stationed at Rolvenden used to pull it
(see my dean goods pack download for the actual one)

allypally · Post by **allypally** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 5:13 pm

Although, as an interesting point, not many locos were destroyed, I think lots and lots of coaching stock was taken out by incendiaries, unlike the locomotives which were obviously harder, being metal lumps.

Atomic Systems

War Time Route?

wartime routes