New Route In Progress

[thenudehamster]

OK.. let's get something straight. Almost nobody here is a professional in the strictest terms, because none of us make a living from TrainSimming.
I'm not a professional; I'm a former AA man, and a qualified photocopier technician who is interested in computers, technology generally, and trains. I built a PC to run TrainSim, and I learned how to do it as I built it, I learned Train Sim the way I learned to fix cars - by doing it! I can't build platforms and buildings; my spatial conceptualisation and artistic skills aren't up to it, but I CAN lay track, tinker with .eng file physics, and edit activities - if that makes me professional, then maybe I am.

My basic premise is that you will learn a lot more from doing the research, trying to make things, failing, figuring out where you went wrong and trying again than you ever will by simply having everything handed to you on a plate.

Route building is NOT easy. the guys who built some of the earliest routes for MSTS learned by reading the TechDocs which came with MSTS, reading the helpfiles and trying to figure out what the hell it all meant. Michael Vone figured it out well enough to write up a manual which translates the TechDocs into a more readable treatise and was able to include a lot of extras, including step-by-step instructions on building a route, holding your hand all the way. It's well worth the $20 the publishers charge for it if you're seriously interested in building a route. If you don't want to pay $20, then do it the same way as Michael did and figure it all out.
Tim Booth has redesigned the MSTS trackwork to make it more realistic for UK routes and has made it available FREE; he has included a lot of documentation but it is a LOT. I downloaded it and read it; if I can make the effort, so should you be able to.
There are a lot of tutorials on the Australian website, including a very basic route building one. Take a look at that.

What it comes down to is the same as I've said before - nobody is going to do everything FOR you; you have to do most of it, and that includes the very basic legwork. YOU have to learn, it's not up to us to teach.
If that concept is too difficult for you, then Train Simming, especially the construction side of it, is not for you. Go play with Action Man - it'll be more satisfying.

[mk006p1955]

Your older than me and i have learning difficulties thats why im in a special unit at school because i dont understand things as well as everyone else [ why do u think i ask so many questions?] im always trying to do things that i never thought was possible but they never work but at least im trying to get help and trying to learn things new. so dont u go saying go play with ur action man because i thought u were the best person on here 4 help before obviously im wrong its only because ur older and ive only just started.
You try having a computer full of errors and try building a route then ull no wot frustrating means anyway if u dont want to help then dont bother posting because im not interested im only interested in people that wanna help people like me who dont no wot the f*** there doing and dont no the basics alright!!!!!!

[thenudehamster]

I am trying to help you, but I'm trying to help you to help yourself.

You're looking to do one of the most difficult parts of MSTS in no time flat, and getting pissed at everyone when it doesn't work. Well, I'm sorry, it ain't gonna happen that quickly. It's just not possible. What you're doing is trying to run before you've learned to crawl, and then complaining that you haven't won an Olympic medal.

Learning any of the construction and editing features of MSTS is a long, and none too easy, process, and it's horribly frustrating even when it all goes right, let alone when it goes wrong.

As for your 'I've only just started' complaint, I only found out about TrainSim last Christmas. I had to build a computer to use it - I'd only had a Mac up until then - figure out how Windows worked, learn how to play the game and how to use the computer. A computer full of errors? I know only too well - took me a month to get mine straight and it still has errors. And I know about learning difficulties - I was diagnosed as having ADD five years ago, which means I'd been living with a learning difficulty for forty five years - and all the help I ever got was to be labelled slow, and lazy, and uninterested, and told to try harder. Not everyone here is Einstein in disguise, but we don't all complain when things don't go right straightaway.

If it's any consolation, I started building my first route in February this year from Michael's book, and it took me two months to get it reasonably close to right. It's still barely presentable. I'm presently trying to get the track for another route laid; whether it will ever see the light of day is another matter, because Nottingham Station is being a complete pain in the arse and I've just found out how enormous Colwick shed and yards were. But I'm learning all the time. I'm learning what I can and can't do; I'm learning what the Editor can and can't do.

Yes, I'm older than you; that doesn't mean I'm better than you. What it does mean is that I've had a good few years to learn things which you have yet to learn, and I'm trying to pass on the basic lessons which will help you do a lot of things, not just lay track in a computer game.
If you really have no clue about the basics of MSTS, then complaining on this forum is not going to help you. All you will achieve is to get everyone pissed off at you, and nobody will answer your questions. Take the time to learn how the game is played, to start with. Read ALL the docs that came with it, read all the helpfiles. Look into .eng files, and .wag files and relate what you find to what you read in the forums. Read the tutorials on the Homepage of this site, especially the 'Beginner's Guide' and practise what they teach you. Read the Tutorials on the Australian site http://www.railpage.org.au/steam4me/trainsim where you will find an enormous amount of useful information. Make notes of everything significant and keep them by you.
Unless you have someone sitting beside you holding your hand all the way through your learning process, you HAVE to do a lot of it yourself, because, as I said before, YOU have to LEARN. Teaching someone is only presenting things in a way that they can learn them. I used to teach people how to ride motorbikes, but all the teaching in the world was no damned good at all if they didn't learn - because they'd crash the bike straight into a wall - as one kid did; and I KNEW it was going to happen, because he didn't learn. Same with TrainSim; I could walk you through every last step of laying track for a route but unless you learned from it all you'd have is a small route I had built, not you.

Don't try to do more than you level of knowledge will let you. Play the game, and have fun doing it. When you get some more experience, look a bit deeper into the ins and outs of it. Look at the Activity Editor first would be my advice - take an existing activity and modify it using diferent stock. Then try making your own.
Look into Route Building only when you have a good knowledge of the game - it is, as I've said, the most difficult of the Editors to use.

[mk006p1955]

ok then but i dont get wot u said about looking into the .eng and .wag files but dont worry ill have a look and try and see what i can and cant do but if i cant build parts of the track because of errors wot should i do.
I downloaded and installed ukfs but the track pieces dont work so wot should i do?

[mk006p1955]

I JUST GOT A QUESTION?

1. how can i build a bridge without an error coming up or objects like road sections tunnels etc.

[dkightley]

Nigel

Heed the advice given in this thread. We were all starters at one time....and we all had to learn how to do things.

The problem you're having with laying tracks is that the list you see is a list of "known" track sections...the MSTS supplied sections, and many more that are available to download from all over the place. The secret is to stick to the MSTS default pieces. Which are they...well go to the Aussie site (url given above) and download the "Track Primer" tutorial.

Read the tutorial, then read it again...and a third time if you're still not sure. then have a go at stringing a few track pieces together....but only use the pieces listed in the tutorial. With a bit of luck, you'll get the hang of SIMPLE things. Once you get the hang of it, you'll be able to move on. But try to be patient....and don't rush. And let everyone know how you get on....

Cheers

[thenudehamster]

If you downloaded and installed Finescale as it says in the instructions, then it should work.

How are you trying to lay the track?
Have you actually set up your Route Tiles in the Route Geometry Extractor, then made and saved the Quad Tree?
Did you set a Start Tile?

Can you open the route tiles in the Route Editor?
Do you have the Placement Window, Object Window, and the other Tools open in the RE?

You MUST have created the QuadTree and tiles in the RGE before you can lay track anywhere. Then, and only then, can you open the route tiles in the Route Editor and lay track - unless you're trying to lay track in an existing route, but doing that is fraught with difficulties for the beginner - and could well destroy that route.

[mk006p1955]

hi im on that url above and im writing down useful information ive done route geometry extractor set a start tile blah blah blah ive got all the windows up in the route editor but thee ukfs track pieces dont work?

[dkightley]

Read my post above. Trying to place a track piece for which the supporting files (which will be installed when track data is downloaded...such as UKFS or XTracks) will give an error. laying MSTS supplied track will not give an error if, as Barry has indicated, the route is set up correctly.

Look at the Aussie site and the tutorial I suggested......things wil never get easier if you don't take advice.

[calvert]

A quote from Margret Thatcher,

"You may have to fight more than once to win"

So don't give up yet! I must be on my..ohhh....hmmm....30+ attempt at buildig a route now, so don't give up!

One more quote, this time from Thomas Telford,

"I havent failed, I've just found 10,000 was that wont work!"

Best of luck my freind.

[JohnKendrick]

hi im on that url above and im writing down useful information ive done route geometry extractor set a start tile blah blah blah ive got all the windows up in the route editor but thee ukfs track pieces dont work?

You can't use UKFS or XTracks until you have downloaded and installed the shapes in the MSTS global shapes file. You will also need UKFS textures adding to your route texture folder.

Route building isn't easy, if it doesn't seem to work try and think if you are missing something. If you only have the default track sections you can't expect to be able to use any non default ones. If you've installed UKFS and then get errors trying to use it, then maybe you've installed it wrong. A query here on the forums may then help solve that if you say where you've done.

To be honest, it's usually best to start with a short route just using the default sections, though unfortunately these are hard to identify now that XTracks and similar track extensions have hijacked Kuju's naming method. You think you're selecting a default track piece but it isn't! At least UKFS has it's own naming method and it's track sections are easily identified.

John

[mk006p1955]

Ok then how do i install the shapes into the msts global shapes file and how do i add ukfs textures to the route texture folder.
Could u give me step by step instructions please.
And once ive done these ukfs should work right?

[JohnKendrick]

The authors have already spent days writing read-me's about doing that. Suggest you ask the authors, or post queries in the UKFS forum where the read-me's aren't clear enough for you. In fact Tim' Booth's UKFS installer will now do it all for you.

Do you know how to copy, move and delete files using Windows Explorer? If so, it's just a matter of knowing where they go and the read-me's/instructions are there for that purpose.

John

[LucaZone]

This is ridiculous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
why on earth is everyone making things so vastly over complicated?

The guy cant even lay a piece of track yet and we're already trying to explain to him errors he is getting using UKFS. Whats the problem with using default stuff? hell if default track isnt even working how does anyone expect downloaded stuff too?

Mate I cant beleive for one second that uve done ANY kind of research and/or looked at any of the information in this forum (eg the 'newbies read here' and 'for beginners' sections). Youve been registered to this site for 10 days, and in less than that time ur already diving head first into the pacific ocean of development for a game that you probably havent even fully played yet. How do you expect to land on the moon when you cant even fly!

You seriously need to take a look at what your trying to achieve and ask your self if you really know what your doing. At the age you are, there is no way ud be able to get hold of the relevent material required to build a route for MSTS properly, without adult assitance, and even then you wouldnt be able to gain enough knowlegde from it in less than 24 hours of starting, to do what your asking?

You have already complained that you cant build roads / bridges / tunnels etc and you started at 3pm yesterday. This isnt a model railway where you drop in the bits you want, plug the track together, slap on a train and away you go. It takes months of hard work with countless hours spent creating a railway environment, and thats if your doing it off the top of your head! Without even knowing how to lay track you have already set yourself the task of creating a major UK train line, one that in the 4 years since MSTS has been around, noone has atempted.

I seriously think you should forget trying to build a route for MSTS until you fully understand what that means. Which at the moment i dont think you have the slightest clue. Ow and theres no point putting down disabilities in defence of your errors. We all love trains here, and there are no qualifications or requirements to love playing with them. You enjoy it a the pace you want to, as does everyone else. Nobody cares about your problems, because we all have problems of our own............

[mk006p1955]

if u havent got anything nice to say then dont post for a start and john i no how to copy and move files where would i get the readme from thanks for ur help.
i got the routebuilding guide from abacus and im about half way on that its really coming along great.
ive tested the route and it works and ive also built an activity so im doing quite well at the moment and lucazone dont post anyore.
thanks u guys.