A question for route builders about feedback

XPTE · Post by **XPTE** » Mon May 31, 2004 8:56 pm

What do you think when after all your hard work you've spent on your route, you've recieved very very little in the way of feedback? Also if you post any news about your route on the forums to let people know how progress is going, you hardly get any response? Does it make you think "well are people interested in my route or what?" and "is it really worth continueing with the project if no one seems to be interested?".

As mentioned in my posting on the "project voyager" topic, I am dissapointed by the lack of feedback about the route. The route has so far had about 550 downloads, yet I only ever recieved about 8 feedback comments. Which by my calculation works out to be a feedback ratio of only about 0.5-0.6%. Which is just incredibly low. Is this normal for you other route builders too? I do hope I'm not the only one.

While I wouldn't expect a feedback ratio of 100%, maybe at least a feedback ratio of 10% would be nice. It doesn't take long for people to send a quick PM to say they've enjoyed route creation does it?

Over the past few months I have thought to myself "why should I continue with this project? I don't seem to be getting any thanks or much in the way of interest for it.". Some other routes seem to be generating a lot of discussion from many people on the forums, whilst means seems a bit left out in the cold somewhat.

Despite the apparent lack of interest in the route though, I do aim to continue working on the project and have no plans to abandon it, as I personally want to see the route completed, even if it ends up being for my own personal use only.

Just wondering what other route builders think about the lack of feedback(if your route does get as low feedback as mine has recieved that is) about your routes?

I have heard some MSTS content creators are no longer creating material for upload, as they were so fed up of their work not being appreciated.

I can totally understand why they took this decision.

Cheers.

LucaZone · Post by **LucaZone** » Mon May 31, 2004 9:28 pm

you know what my response is - Your route is just track on a pool table.... Thus there isnt much to comment on. Scope is minimal because the end users have to 'imagine' so much.

As I said before, if your really that concerned about why interest seems low in your route, its because your time scales are too large. a year just to do the landscape, and even longer before any scenery is available. Track on a barron flat table isnt going to keep people occupied, no matter how good the layout is.

On the other hand, if it appears that your doing the route for the benefit of others, and those apparent others dont seem to be all that bothered anymore, then yes I would say dont waste any more time. Move effort into your new route where you can put what uve learned into effect, and maybe produce something of more interest and passion to yourself as well as capture the eyes of the community.

Youve got to be doing something you want to do, or wheres the enjoyment?

XPTE · Post by **XPTE** » Mon May 31, 2004 9:33 pm

I disagree about my route being nothing more than track on a pool table.

...............I would like to hear comments from route builders who have uploaded routes please.

LucaZone · Post by **LucaZone** » Mon May 31, 2004 9:36 pm

nice, so your asking for feedback about lack of feedback, but ur being selective about who you want to hear from.

Fine by me. Was only offering how I saw your situation. Wont bother in future....like so many others...........

XPTE · Post by **XPTE** » Mon May 31, 2004 9:39 pm

I was looking for feedback from route authors who have allready uploaded/made available their route. As they will know how much feedback they would have recieved about their route.

dwjoy · Post by **dwjoy** » Mon May 31, 2004 9:42 pm

I'm afraid your response rate is fairly typical. However, I think that those who use our routes do genuinely appreciate them but, for the most part. feel no obligation to say so. Conversely, expect to hear about anything in the route that is wrong.
A small number of us have been labouring to produce the Paddington to Penzance GWR route for well over 2 years now and in the process, have spent several hundred hours at the keyboard. When it is released in late summer, we confidently predict more criticism than praise. We are going to release it anyway.

barrymcguire9999 · Post by **barrymcguire9999** » Mon May 31, 2004 9:47 pm

XPTE wrote:I disagree about my route being nothing more than track on a pool table.

...............I would like to hear comments from route builders who have uploaded routes please.

As someone who is building a route for eventual upload, personal opinion is that the download figures would speak for themselves, I wouldn't worry about lack of feedback, you could go an alternate way and say that there are no problems with your route so no one has needed to hassle you with problems with it.......so look at it that way. At the end of the day, your route has been created by yourself for yourself, sharing it is a bonus for the rest of us

Yet another way of looking at it is how many people have created activites for the route which have been uploaded, that shows interest. As I say, don't worry about lack of feedback. Very rare I give any feedback (honest guv, guilty

the only thing I can remember giving feedback/thanks was to the creator of the Merseyrail Class 507 which appeared recently), but I appreciate hugely everything created that I have had the privilege to obtain from here (and T-S.com.....). I'm sure 99% of us here who download stuff also feel similar! So relax and enjoy the hobby

Cheers

Barry

MeridianNick · Post by **MeridianNick** » Mon May 31, 2004 9:48 pm

Marc, a reason why I didn't give feedback toward the route because it clogged up my hard drive. 1.5gb for a route is very high especially when theres just trackwork on pretty much level terrian. Also since the route was mostly fictional it was hard to comment on, as the trackwork wasn't 100% true-to-life so no-one could really comment on the trackwork.I'd of included a few models (depot buildings, platforms, platform models) for the next release just to show a falvour of things to come.

This may be unreleated but, theres only so much maps and sectional appendix data/track diagrams can help. For instance Notttingham Eastcrofts track diagram wasn't very good. Marc I'd recommend you focus on a local route not to long, but a reasonable size for future expansion. Thats what I did, and is highly recommended.

Nick

LucaZone · Post by **LucaZone** » Mon May 31, 2004 9:53 pm

XPTE wrote:I was looking for feedback from route authors who have allready uploaded/made available their route. As they will know how much feedback they would have recieved about their route.

Being a route author myself, and having worked on my current project for more than 2 years, simply because my route is not available surely doesnt make me any different. I have a complete forum dedicated on another website. There are some regulars to the EB site, but on average when i release an update, i get maybe 80-100 views to the topic, most probably from frequenters checking comments. I HAVE to generate interest, or what ive been hired for wont make money. Thats far more of a problam than uve faced.

So having done research into how i can make sure what im doing will be a success, I do know a little about what ur asking. Despite not having released anything people can play with yet. So dont be so quick to dismiss my comments.

XPTE · Post by **XPTE** » Mon May 31, 2004 10:01 pm

MeridianNick wrote:Marc, a reason why I didn't give feedback toward the route because it clogged up my hard drive. 1.5gb for a route is very high especially when theres just trackwork on pretty much level terrian. Also since the route was mostly fictional it was hard to comment on, as the trackwork wasn't 100% true-to-life so no-one could really comment on the trackwork.I'd of included a few models (depot buildings, platforms, platform models) for the next release just to show a falvour of things to come.

The size of the file issue I attempted many times to solve, but was unsuccessful. A warning about the size of the file was stated on the route download info page. I shall try again to solve this issue when I upload the new version of the route in anything between 3-6 months time.

Wouldn't really say the route was mostly fictional though. I used real track diagrams and gradient details for the routes construction. For the most part, the gradients in my version are spot on, as are the distances between stations. And the track layout itself is fairly representative(though not dead accurate) of the real lines. Anyone who's familiar with the GWML would know that it's a fairly reasonable represenation of the real line(with the exception of a couple of junctions) The semi-fictional element is the addition of the extra stations and the totally fictional 2 and a half mile branch line. Also described the route as semi-fictional as I wouldn't want people thinking it's an exact replica of the real line.

XPTE · Post by **XPTE** » Mon May 31, 2004 10:06 pm

Cheers for your comments dwjoy and BarryMcGuire. It's good to know that I'm not alone in the feedback ratio for route builders.

While I don't generally give feedback to activity or model authors, though I do appreciate their work. If I've downloaded and enjoyed a route I now allways send the authors a PM or leave a comment on the forums saying how much I enjoyed their work and thank them for it.

MeridianNick · Post by **MeridianNick** » Mon May 31, 2004 10:57 pm

XPTE wrote:
MeridianNick wrote:Marc, a reason why I didn't give feedback toward the route because it clogged up my hard drive. 1.5gb for a route is very high especially when theres just trackwork on pretty much level terrian. Also since the route was mostly fictional it was hard to comment on, as the trackwork wasn't 100% true-to-life so no-one could really comment on the trackwork.I'd of included a few models (depot buildings, platforms, platform models) for the next release just to show a falvour of things to come.
The size of the file issue I attempted many times to solve, but was unsuccessful. A warning about the size of the file was stated on the route download info page. I shall try again to solve this issue when I upload the new version of the route in anything between 3-6 months time.

Wouldn't really say the route was mostly fictional though. I used real track diagrams and gradient details for the routes construction. For the most part, the gradients in my version are spot on, as are the distances between stations. And the track layout itself is fairly representative(though not dead accurate) of the real lines. Anyone who's familiar with the GWML would know that it's a fairly reasonable represenation of the real line(with the exception of a couple of junctions) The semi-fictional element is the addition of the extra stations and the totally fictional 2 and a half mile branch line. Also described the route as semi-fictional as I wouldn't want people thinking it's an exact replica of the real line.

Shows how much I know about Western routes

Thanks for clearing that up.

mikesimpson · Post by **mikesimpson** » Mon May 31, 2004 11:00 pm

Hi XPTE,

As both a route author (Blue-Mountains) and utilities author (Route-Riter), I would like to advise you that the less you hear the better.

I find that if there is nothing wrong with an upload you hear virtually nothing, but if you make a mistake you will be inundated with emails (I have had over 1000 emails regarding Route-Riter over the past 2 years).

Not many people will send you a message saying 'Your route is great', but you can take some heart when you see it mentioned on the forums etc. I was lucky with the Blue-Mountains route in that not many Australian routes were available when it was released so downloads were quite high (at least on train-sim.com and steam4me, with very few here - which is why I never released v3 on this site).

I do not have your route, so can not comment on it however the remarks that it is 1.5 gigs with little scenery seems to indicate that something is seriously wrong somewhere (massive textures etc? Or far more tiles than the route actually needs?) Face it, the Marias Pass is only 260 megs installed and it covers a very large area. Also the time taken to build routes should not be so long (I know not everyone has a lot of time to spend in front of a computer), however I built the BM line including a lot of custom models in around 3 months including 70 miles of track climbing over 3000 feet and with all the scenery - OK it is not the worlds greatest route, but it looks like it should and is good enough for most people.

boeing126 · Post by **boeing126** » Tue Jun 01, 2004 10:05 am

I have allways sent a reply of thanks whenever i have downloaded a route or rolling stock,and usually got an acknowledgement back.The only exception being the author of the "regional" route but he might not have received my e-mail.

terrycunliffe · Post by **terrycunliffe** » Tue Jun 01, 2004 11:58 am

I'm of the "No news is good news" brigade...

Feedback guesstimate for NWE is around 1 - 2 %
Activities somewhat less than that.
Terry