DEM Data

[Backfoot2002]

I am probabaly the only person that doesnt understand how the hell to use this, os if anyone out there is willing to give me some help please do.

For a start i read Lucazone's tutorial, which im afraid to say, was really hard to understand and also the fact that the links didnt work for some reason, also didnt help. I have started my route but only 5 or 6 miles of it. i was wondering if using the DEM i could DEM the rest of the route before i start laying track there.

If this is possibale coudl anyone tell me how to use the DEM tool so that i can get working, and show some link that work.

I have already downloaded the 90 degree map off teh UKTS site which you need to use, but at the moment that is all i have.

Anton

[Christopher125]

Hi

Those links should work - there's something wrong at you end cos they work fine for me. Also try pm-ing qzdcg8 (Steve N).

Chris

[LucaZone]

Sorry to hear that. Is there any chance you could let me know what u found difficult about the tutorial so that i might update it.

I wrote it as simple as i could, and in some cases explained every button press and navigation direction. Not sure i can make it any easier to understand :/

[Backfoot2002]

Lucazone:

Well as i have learnt from doing courses at college, start from the bottom and work your way up. In the tutorial you have jumped right into how to DEM, firs of all i think you should explain what it is and what it does. I now know what it, i think, but it had to search quite a ffew forums to see what it was all about.

Really that is the main fault, the reason why i couldnt do teh rest was because it wouldnt let me open that page, and as Chris said in the post above it was something wrong at my end. Now i am doing teh tutorial again, now that the links are working and ill try and do the tutorial.

One thing i must say though is that it was helpful fro you to post this as i think you haven helped many people understand how to do it, but like i said at the start, to understand how to do it, you have to know what your doing!

Anton

[LucaZone]

Im confused.

"To understand how to do it, u have to know what ur doing."

That statement is pretty obvious, but it appears to say to me that, for me to write a tutorial, i need to understand what im writing about. So are u telling me i dont really appear to know what im talking about during the tutorial? bit unfair of you to say isnt it? Your the first person since i wrote it, to say that or infact have any trouble other than the links not working (which to be fair is nothing to dow ith me. they work for me, and i dont know of any other links)


Or there is another way, which i think is what ur trying to say, but dont do so very well.

You have to know what Terraforming ur route is before u can attempt the tutorial.

Again however im confused. Surely ud only look at a tutorial that is relevent to something your doing. There is no point in me reading up on how to create an activity if all i want to do is repaint a train. So im not sure how u can complain that the tutorial doesnt explain what it is, when those using it only do so because thats what they need to know. U read it and follow the instructions when u need to.

The title tells you what is about - Terraforming your route in 5 easy steps.

From that you should be able to denote that 1] Its something about a/your route in MSTS; 2] It involves terraforming or landscaping said route; 3] Its going to take 5 steps to do it.

If what ur after doesnt come in those 3 points then there is no point in following the tutorial as i dont think it will be relevent. So to answer ur initial question. Ive explained 'what it is' in the title alone. Its how to terraform your route.


There is only 1 other thing i can deduce from your reply. That i assume people want to use the DEM (Digital Elevation Measurements?) data for the terraforming of their route. Maybe the reason for me jumping straight into how to select the right DEM files is because the process of using the data to landscape a route in the UK, is soooo easy that i would recommend it over EVERY other terraforming method available, and especially so for anyone new starting out route building.

However the process of using the DEM data to terraform your landscape,does not at all require you to know what DEM data is, as by the end of the instructions, or maybe before, you will have worked out what it is (which by modern geography education you should already know).


Sorry if this is not the answer your after, but ur response to what 'fault' you found in the tutorial, seems to stem from something that has nothing to do with the tutorial at all. More 'having a sense of what it is you need to do to create a route in MSTS, and what order to do specific tasks'. Which is something the title of the tutorial will tell you it does not cover. This kind of information can be found in the Route Builders Guide. a book that is preached by and recommended countless times to anyone requesting info and help about building a route.

[Backfoot2002]

Im confused.

"To understand how to do it, u have to know what ur doing."

That statement is pretty obvious, but it appears to say to me that, for me to write a tutorial, i need to understand what im writing about. So are u telling me i dont really appear to know what im talking about during the tutorial? bit unfair of you to say isnt it? Your the first person since i wrote it, to say that or infact have any trouble other than the links not working (which to be fair is nothing to dow ith me. they work for me, and i dont know of any other links)


Or there is another way, which i think is what ur trying to say, but dont do so very well.

You have to know what Terraforming ur route is before u can attempt the tutorial.

Again however im confused. Surely ud only look at a tutorial that is relevent to something your doing. There is no point in me reading up on how to create an activity if all i want to do is repaint a train. So im not sure how u can complain that the tutorial doesnt explain what it is, when those using it only do so because thats what they need to know. U read it and follow the instructions when u need to.

The title tells you what is about - Terraforming your route in 5 easy steps.

From that you should be able to denote that 1] Its something about a/your route in MSTS; 2] It involves terraforming or landscaping said route; 3] Its going to take 5 steps to do it.

If what ur after doesnt come in those 3 points then there is no point in following the tutorial as i dont think it will be relevent. So to answer ur initial question. Ive explained 'what it is' in the title alone. Its how to terraform your route.


There is only 1 other thing i can deduce from your reply. That i assume people want to use the DEM (Digital Elevation Measurements?) data for the terraforming of their route. Maybe the reason for me jumping straight into how to select the right DEM files is because the process of using the data to landscape a route in the UK, is soooo easy that i would recommend it over EVERY other terraforming method available, and especially so for anyone new starting out route building.

However the process of using the DEM data to terraform your landscape,does not at all require you to know what DEM data is, as by the end of the instructions, or maybe before, you will have worked out what it is (which by modern geography education you should already know).


Sorry if this is not the answer your after, but ur response to what 'fault' you found in the tutorial, seems to stem from something that has nothing to do with the tutorial at all. More 'having a sense of what it is you need to do to create a route in MSTS, and what order to do specific tasks'. Which is something the title of the tutorial will tell you it does not cover. This kind of information can be found in the Route Builders Guide. a book that is preached by and recommended countless times to anyone requesting info and help about building a route.

To start, I think you have the wrong end of the stick. I am not implying that you do not know what you are doing; I am talking about others not understanding. As you were saying that this is in the title that is not always clear to users. It maybe easy for you to understand, yes but not everyone is alike. You need to outline is basic of what is “Terraformingâ€

[thenudehamster]

If it's any help, I had NO idea what DEM data was when Luca's tutorial was first posted (my last school geography lesson was years before the end of steam on British Railways - BritishRail hadn't even been born!). However, I read it, read it again, printed it, then tried to follow it. Step by step, I followed it. One of the links (I forget which) I had to c&p into the browser, but from there it was plain sailing. Everything worked exactly as he said it would - even if I didn't always understand what I was looking at. If at first you don' understand, do it again and again until you do. So I did. At the end I had a fully terraformed set of route tiles.
My guess is that if Backfoot doesn't understand the tutorial the fault is more with him than with Lucazone.

As for his other question, yes, you can terraform after you've laid track, the data doesn't care, but if your lat and long figures are off you may get some odd results.

Oh and BTW, Lucazone.... I've said this about other things you've done, but it bears saying again. Thank You.

[LucaZone]

To be fair, if you dont know what terraoforming is, or what it will do to your route, then u wouldnt look at a terraforming tutorial would you?

What your saying are fair points, but your cutting it far to basic. To the point where i'l end up having to write another Vone Guide.

The basis of the tutorial is not to explain the b all and end all of route terraining, it was written to rescue all the builders out there who were continually asking how they could use the 90m DEM data that everyone was raving about, in their own route.

So yes it was written for people who had a rough idea of what they needed to do terrain wise. Im not going to make any changes or additions to the tutorial, as its ment to be short and sweet. This helps sell the 'easily done' factor.

Ok it doesnt explain what terraforming a route means, but then it was never ment to..............with a little patience and the curiousity to find out, it wont take long to work out. Especially if its one of the first things you need to think about when creating routes in MSTS.

Thank you for your input though. It certainly gives another angle for tutorial writers to consider.

[Backfoot2002]

Ok, i understand, what you saying, im not saying i didnt understand the tutorial, im just saying it was a little hard at first with my pc not opening the links. Like you though i have read it time and time again and finally tonight after 2 and half hours of solidy reading it and trail and error, have done the DEM data thingy. it worked alright with no problems, but i dont think ill be using it,a s i have already layed about 6 miles of track, and the DEM put the terrain at 30.0000 (whatever that is, meters, feet, yards?) but my track was at 7.0000 so i just installed the backup of my route.

I must admit thought it is a good tool, does anyone know if Microsoft used this tool to create the routes n there game, as i have only heard about this in the past month or so, and dont know how long it has been around for. I think on future routes, i will use this tool, as after all sorting out and such, with downloading all the tools, and this that and the other it actually looks good .

I will say though, to Lucazone that i apologise for having a go and all. I was my stupid self that teh reason why i didnt get this working the first time, but if at first you suceed, try, try again, as anyone who has used msts will know

Anton

[LucaZone]

The good thing is, not only are these tutorials around, but we have this wonderful site and forum, where you can come and talk to all those others doing the same as you, and u can even get in direct contact with the people writing the stuff that helps everyone.

Which really is 10x better than reading tutorials all the time


just make sure u dont ask something thats been answered 5 times this week already

[Backfoot2002]

Yeah i undertand what you mean, by reading te tutorial 10x over, it is time comsuming but it does help alot . its a shame im not using it in my route though, but i may have only done 6 miles of track, but its 6 miles of Londons trackwork, and anyone who has seen that, will understand, going from Waterloo to to just outside Clapham Juction creating every, connecting track, point, station, siding and keeping it all within the correct distance is a tack m only willing to do once .

Anyways Luca, hows your vCtrl route going, i dont really know much about it, i was looking on the forums and found a cfew shots but thats about it really, dont really know much else?

Any info?

Anton