Crewe to Liverpool

[gopher]

Paul, I will get back to you regarding buildings as soon as I am free in about 3 months.

Well Mikey2001 it looks as if either the 303 or 311 will have to have a reskin. It's a shame because I wanted to do a Crewe Liverpool stopper. I will just have to use them as AI's. Any volunteers for a quick reskin please. Can't do it myself at the moment, just got too much on my plate.

Gordon

[PaulH2]

Paul, I will get back to you regarding buildings as soon as I am free in about 3 months.

Thanks Gordon, sounds great.

Sorry to have hijacked this thread somewhat...

I'm looking forward to those activities, always makes a route that much more enjoyable when there are somm good activities around as well as my own (often very dodgy) activity creations. Generally speaking, not one of my strengths, but I did enjoy putting the Ffestiniog bank holiday special pack together.

Paul

[dforrest]

Can someone advise what stock would have been used in the early to mid sixties on this route?

[qzdcg8]

I too have noticed the lack of AC EMUs on the UKTS website. The southern members of our community are fairly well catered for when it comes to EMUs but us northerners have very few to shout about - I dont think there are any pre-1990 northern EMU rolling stock on the entire database!

Like to see a 305 - all blue from the 70's as used on Stockport-Macclesfield or Regional Rail as used for a bit in the 80's on the rewired Manchester to Hadfield/Glossop

[jp4712]

Can someone advise what stock would have been used in the early to mid sixties on this route?

Well first of all, you need Tim Court's class 81 and 86, both in the early 'electric blue' with cast aluminium lion & wheel on the side.

For coaching stock, use the MkI and Maroon ex-LMS sets that are available - but strictly speaking it would be unprototypical to use the red & cream versions as this livery had pretty much gone by the time the electrics appeared.

You would also see plenty of DMUs - the green class 101 and to some extent the Cravens 105. The green 117 that's available wouldn't be strictly accurate as you wouldn't have seen them in this area then, but they'll do. For the path from Lime St towards Manchester you'd see the class 124 Trans-Pennine units, and this is a great opportunity to put this lovely model in a prototypical setting. My, how those units could fly! They were lovely inside too, quite unlike a 'normal' DMU interior.

You would see shedloads of class 304 EMUs, but as has been pointed out there isn't one available for MSTS.

There'd still be loads of steam - Stanier black 5s in quantity, plus Stanier 8F: and Liverpool was also one of the last strongholds of the Jinty, so you'd often see one at Edge Hill or at Lime St as pilot. You could include the Stanier 8P, they were replaced by the 'leckies but you could say it was the changeover period. Also a few dirty Jubilees and plenty of Stanier tanks such as the 42662 that's available. Class 40, yes; class 24/25, yes; 31, definitely not; 47, yes; 08, of course; Deltics, definitely not.

At Crewe you'd see all the above plus, at the south end, some exotica such as Western Region stock including Halls, Manors and the odd Pannier or Hymek; plus the occasional chocolate and cream MkI. I recall that the locals to Stoke and Derby were steam-hauled quite late, so in the south end bays you might find a Stanier 4MT tank or black five with some non-corridor carriages. There's also a G2 0-8-0 with a yellow stripe across the cab - this meant 'not allowed under wires' but it wasn't unknown to see one at Crewe. Northbound towards Carlisle would be class 40/47 by the mid-sixties - if you want to push it to 1968 you'd have to get rid of the steam but include class 50s - including some double-headers - in all-over blue, with a mix of maroon and blue/grey MkI or MkIIa coaches.

On pilot duty at Crewe you'd quite often find anything, but an Ivatt 2MT tank, jinty or maybe a Fowler 4F (just about right for period) would be the most common. As it's Crewe you can also use the Works as an excuse to put in something just out of the factory on test, either running light or running in on a local.

The route at this period is also a good opportunity to use the brake tenders that are available from the site. These would be coupled to a diesel on a freight to give them extra braking power; I have a consist of a class 40 on a long and heavy trainload of Presflo wagons pushing a brake tender (I could be wrong, but I think push was the normal mode); it's quite odd watching the tender move in front of you, especially in shift+1 view!

I hope that windbag reply helps - all the stock I've mentioned is available for download off this site but I don't have time to look up file IDs (I am at work, after all!).

[ccsdc]

Yes, the route is supposed to be based in the mid 1960's. I guess that Crewe North had actually closed by then, but Edge Hill was certainly alive and kicking.

The next phase incidentally involves the Wirral and Northern lines, but I am definitely going to cheat here as both Liverpool Central and Liverpool Exchange are both going to be closed and the Loop and Northern lines as they exist today (actually done in 1975).

The prospect of having 3 major terminus stations on a single world tile is too much for most pcs!!

Nice route... NWE also contains the section between Lime St and Ditton... it's amazing how both alike and also dissimilar the routes are!
Also contains both Liverpool central (which shares a tile with Lime Street), and Liverpool Exchange (on adjacent tile.)
Cheers,
TC

Terry,

You are of course correct. Exchange is on a different tile. After I have built the docks, I will see what I have left for the passenger railways.

[ccsdc]

Paul, I will get back to you regarding buildings as soon as I am free in about 3 months.

Well Mikey2001 it looks as if either the 303 or 311 will have to have a reskin. It's a shame because I wanted to do a Crewe Liverpool stopper. I will just have to use them as AI's. Any volunteers for a quick reskin please. Can't do it myself at the moment, just got too much on my plate.

Gordon

Yes. It is a drawback that there is no 304 or 310 stock. I actually use a steam halued rake for my local Crewe to Liverpool stoppers.

[ThamesClyde]

As for the stock question, AM304's were built for the Crewe to Manchester/Liverpool stopping services and also for Manchester to Stoke/Stafford services and don't forget they were also 4 car units.
The AM310's were built for London Outer suburban and stopping services ie London to New Street via Northampton and Rugby.As for 117 units they could also be used on Liverpool Central to Gateacre and Manchester Central (Green then overall Blue).
For your Crewe to Derby service this was in fact contrary to an earlier post actually dieselised in the late fifties by B.R.C&W 104 and Cravens 105 (105 available at UKtrainsim)units based at Crewe,Cockshute and Derby Etches Park, also there was a Stoke to Manchester London Road service operated by 104 units (headcode B4). Alan.C.Baker did an excellent article in British Railways Illustrated Vol.9No.2 November 1999 covering the building of Cockshute Depot and services between Derby and Crewe with 104 units.
In the pipeline for Merseyside Railways is Runcorn, Ditton 1 and 2 and some of the Basfordhall Signal Boxes if any one is interested.
Anyway I hope the above comments are usefull and help to make the driving experince even more realistic, all in all Merseyside railways is tops in my view and I look forward to any future aditions to this great route.
BescotBeast

[Lurker]

You are of course correct. Exchange is on a different tile. After I have built the docks, I will see what I have left for the passenger railways.

Will you be going along to Wigan at all. I used to go from WNW to Liv Lime Street every weekend with my parents to visit the Gramps in the 70`s.

[Lurker]

If I had known about it I would have had a go at Lime St station for him. Always wanted to model a large canopy.
Gordon

Well I could do Manchester Central for my currently stalled MR Manchester-Buxton Route, although my route is on hold until MSTS 2 now as other things have cropped up..

[qzdcg8]

Watch the poly count - wasn't there a St. Pancras part finished model which would do as Manchester Central?

[ccsdc]

After I have done the railways on Merseyside, my inclination would be to extend south of Crewe.

Also Warrington Railways already has Wigan on the layout, although I am not sure which way John is going to extend from there.

[Lurker]

Also Warrington Railways already has Wigan on the layout, although I am not sure which way John is going to extend from there.

If I remember correctly he isnt going to Liverpool... Ah well, never mind.

Nice route anyway..

[JohnEyres]

The closest I come to Liverpool is Ditton and Huyton. Maybe one day these lines will join up at Edge Hill. St Helens area will be on the new version this time and the Runcorn area. Check out the link below.

[petermakosch]

you know what i think is a real pity?
I use the Really good HST uploaded a few weeks ago, and everytime i come out of Liverpool Lime Street, i crash into the buffers.

Is there a way to stop this?