Atomic Systems

Frank and Yuri, Having read through both, it appears your respective suggestions are effectively the same. I have used a similar tutorial to adjust the alphas on my locos with Polymaster, and the windows etc work fine on the locos in MSTS in normal use. It's only when viewing them under a glass roof - basically viewing the locos through two additional alpha material layers - that this transparent effect occurs. Incidentally, it's not just my loco that becomes transparent, coaches made by someone else are affected in the same way.

There must be lots of glass-roofed stations in MSTS routes, so I guess someone has solved this problem?

Hi Danny,

I don't have an answer for you but I've been following this post with interest because I'm having exactly the same problem i.e. alpha sorting gore wrong when viewing a shape from a certain angle.

Here you can see the signal box viewed from the right with all alphas behaving


Click the image to zoom in


Then swing round the left and the back walls disappear!


Click the image to zoom in


I used GMAX for this model and sorted the walls according to the usual inside/outside convention.

It’s pretty frustrating(!) so any suggestions most welcome.

Cheers

Charles

I do get this sometimes with certain shape files, Trees do it to me. Havent tottally figured out what does it other than its graphic setting related. Im sure if you send them to a n other to try then they may perform ok for them? I have had this with DC and also sometimes Great Eastern but as stated above its sporadic.

Jon

This has been a long standing problem with translucent textures...and appears to be related to the order in which textures are applied.

Not sure if it'll help, but I worked out a solution for 3DC and put together a tutorial to show how to get translucent textures working correctly for your own objects. Having a read might give you an idea or two to try...

Translucencies in MSTS using 3DCanvas [377132 bytes] - 3DCTranslucencies.pdf File ID: 19719 Date: 11 Sep 2008 - 286 Downloads

Charles,
For your signal box I would suggest using alpha (translucent) for the outside windows and transparent for the inside windows. You then only need to alpha sort the outside windows. This approach should solve your disappearing wall problem and make the model more efficient for the sim to display. You would only see totally transparent windows on the unlikely occasion that the camera is inside the signal box looking out.

John,
For trees I would suggest using transparent material to avoid the need for alpha sorting. Are you making the trees? Are you also using GMAX? If so, in the material dialogue, select "BlendATexDiff" under Shader and "Trans" under Alpha Test Mode. Also, when making trees select "Cruciform" under Lighting Palette so that the tree polygons are evenly lit when displayed in the sim.

Derek.

Well I've accepted defeat on the glass roof. Decided to have it transparent from the inside but solid looking down. At least I can move onto the next problem now.

Danny! Do you have a Trans Norm in that Station Roof, there an interesting piece in this thread about disappearing Polies to a Train in a Big Station by Lukas a.k.a Swissie

http://forums.trainsim.com/vbts/showthr ... ring+trees

Frank

Do you have a Trans Norm in that Station Roof

No Frank, just an AlphNorm+ outer roof and AlphNorm- inner roof.

Thanks for posting the link. I have read it, but ........I don't have Archibald (?) although I've opened the shape file in SFM - unfortunately terms like "prim states" and "shader index settings" just baffle me, so I wouldn't know how to adjust them.

I mentioned earlier in this thread that the station is of very simple construction just now, without pillars and arches. Once these are added later - and I'll probably need to use TransNorm materials then - the station will be far more complex and the alphas even more difficult to adjust.

I gather nobody's taken a look at the theory in my tutorial! I may be applying the results of the theory to 3DC....but the theory doesn't apply to 3DC, but the way in which MSTS resolves the model and its faces.

In my method, the transparency property is exactly the same for all faces.....but the order in which the faces are painted makes all the difference. And it works every time!!!

May I suggest someone gives it a go. It might work....

Doug, I have read your tutorial and I believe I understood the logic. Your screenshot also shows that your method works. However I wasn't able to relate this method to TSM. Additionally I believe my problem is different in that when looking through the glass roof, the loco and carriages should remain solid. Also I have no control (other than with my own models) on how stock has been modelled.

sundaypm wrote:Charles,
For your signal box I would suggest using alpha (translucent) for the outside windows and transparent for the inside windows. You then only need to alpha sort the outside windows. This approach should solve your disappearing wall problem and make the model more efficient for the sim to display. You would only see totally transparent windows on the unlikely occasion that the camera is inside the signal box looking out.

John,
For trees I would suggest using transparent material to avoid the need for alpha sorting. Are you making the trees? Are you also using GMAX? If so, in the material dialogue, select "BlendATexDiff" under Shader and "Trans" under Alpha Test Mode. Also, when making trees select "Cruciform" under Lighting Palette so that the tree polygons are evenly lit when displayed in the sim.

Derek.

Thanks Derek, i havent got that luxury, thankfully the models i am invovled in seem to be fine, its other peoples As i said above Trees and OH gantries, also Tims 86s seem to do it aswell? I think possibly its a memory issue with mine, maybe theres a little to much ai in some acts and thats why its sporadic as they are fine in some but not in others? I tried an act for GE and i get see through shots of the cab and internals from the 86 yet from the same view all the containers they were hauling were fine? The trees also showed alpher issues when viewing them at the same time, again not in every act.
Would be nice to figure it out.

Jon

EDIT: Turned the graphics down and all is fine with the same act. Guess some things are easier to figure out.