Ilfracombe goods

decapod · Post by **decapod** » Fri Nov 15, 2002 12:30 pm

I've not done much on the loco front lately, but here is something that has moved forward slightly...

does anyone have an opinion on what colour green was used by LSWR for these locos?

<IMG width="723" height="601" SRC="http://album.atomic-systems.com/showPic ... 1/ilg2.jpg">

saddletank · Post by **saddletank** » Fri Nov 15, 2002 1:12 pm

Richard Osborne has delved into the subject of LSWR loco green and his investigations have apparently turned up only 1 fact - no one seems to agree on it! The colour in your shot looks as close as any, and more convincing than some rather bluey shades I've seen on models.

I love those tapering chimneys.

cua193 · Post by **cua193** » Fri Nov 15, 2002 2:06 pm

Paul,

The info I have suggests that goods locos were painted a dark olive green, dark enough to be taken as black! The original soubriquet for the 700s was 'Black Motors'. However, I have a book with a cover by George Heiron which has a 700 in unlined passenger green.

From Ernest Carter's book:-
Goods engines generally described in sources as very deep olive green, darker than LBSCR locomotives. Locomotives were sometimes black. The lining was not very elaborate, and the older types were not lined at all.

My 700, due out soon, is dark olive lined red.

All the photos I have show goods engines as dark, as they were taken with orthochromatic film this is subject to interpretation. The passenger locos also look dark, contemporary accounts describe them as 'Emerald Green'

regards
Richard Osborne

decapod · Post by **decapod** » Fri Nov 15, 2002 3:33 pm

Ta Richard - I'll attempt to do it a very dark green/olive unlined LSWR livery, I suspect they were not repainted when used on the K&ESR or S&M - the pics I have of them show them very dull and grimy - I don't think Col Stephens ever washed any of his engines.

mikesimpson · Post by **mikesimpson** » Fri Nov 15, 2002 10:00 pm

Hi Paul

Following is a picture which Dave Bran sent me recently, may give you some ideas:-

<IMG width="640" height="305" SRC="http://album.atomic-systems.com/showPic ... /adams.jpg">

Christopher125 · Post by **Christopher125** » Sat Nov 16, 2002 9:34 am

YES Please do this engine...Please do this engine...Please do this engine...Please do this engine...Please do this engine...Please do this engine...Please do this engine...

(Sorry-i got a bit carried away!)

Chris

pdeee · Post by **pdeee** » Sat Nov 16, 2002 10:22 am

From a C. Hamilton Ellis painting.

Pat.

cua193 · Post by **cua193** » Sat Nov 16, 2002 11:54 am

Both the O2 & the T9 are in passenger livery.

What we really need are contemporary colour photos! Time machine anyone?

Hamilton Ellis' painting is a bit fanciful. I have no record of stars on smokeboxes - this was a practice on the Caledonian.

I met Hamilton Ellis once, at the Bluebell when the Caley Single was there.
Interesting chap - the architypal English eccentric.

There was a G6 available for download at one time - perhaps the designer could be persuaded to convert it into an 02. It's on my list - but then so are other LSWR & Southern locos. Christopher - invest in TSM or 3dcanvas & have a go!

regards
Richard Osborne

GavinW · Post by **GavinW** » Sat Nov 16, 2002 12:02 pm

No colour from that period unless someone was out shooting Autochrome. Earliest railway colour that I have seen is caledonian blue in a documentary on the Queen Mother that was shown a few years ago. Bit blurred and distant BUT DEFINATELY pre grouping and definately colour!. There was a shot of a L&Y railmotor on the cover of a book about five years ago that was taken from a paget plate. Pre Nat stuff is rare, but pre grouping is like hens teeth and these are the only two examples that I have seen.

You will probably have gathered by now that I am a bit of an early colour buff. Just got 200 dufaycolors from a trip to Yugoslavia in about 1937 - what a waste - they should have been going round taking street or railway scenes in britain!!

mikesimpson · Post by **mikesimpson** » Sat Nov 16, 2002 9:22 pm

[There was a G6 available for download at one time - perhaps the designer could be persuaded to convert it into an 02. It's on my list - but then so are other LSWR & Southern locos. Christopher - invest in TSM or 3dcanvas & have a go! ]

Hi Richard,

The Adam G6 was the first model I ever built, simply because it was the only 0-6-0 I had any plans for, it was not very good, but maybe I can dig out the old model and have another go at it. As it was not LNER, I was not very interested in it.

The Adam was originally on the old Trainsim site (Tim Booth's one).

cua193 · Post by **cua193** » Sun Nov 17, 2002 10:44 am

Paul,

Stop what you're doing - go instantly to:-

http://homepages.tesco.net/~early/lswr/lscol2.html

seems to be pretty definitive!

regards
Richard Osborne

pdeee · Post by **pdeee** » Sun Nov 17, 2002 11:03 am

cua193 wrote:'Hamilton Ellis' painting is a bit fanciful. I have no record of stars on smokeboxes - this was a practice on the Caledonian.

Richard Osborne

Richards reverence to the star on the smoke box of the T9 and the CR, set me thinking, when Dugald Drummond the Caledonian Railway, Locomotive Superintendent came to the LSWR, many footplate staff from the NB and CR followed him south, to quote O. S. Nock from his book Railway Race To The North, 1959: -
"The accents of Clydeside, Stirling and Perth became familiar sounds on many a southern footplate"
This can pose a few interesting questions, did some driver bring a Star with him from the CR, as at that time, crews could be allocated an engine as not all engines were common user, drivers did take a great pride in there engines and had been known to spend many hours of there own time cleaning and polishing and personalising them. Would Drummond, a dour Clydesider have authorised its use or did Hamilton Ellis place it there to just to remind people of the LSWR CR link.

Not being an authority in the LSWR or any other railway, I shall leave it to the more informed, but it would be nice to think some long gone driver put it on his engine, just to show his links with the past, a bit like wearing a tartan scarf.

Pat.

decapod · Post by **decapod** » Sun Nov 17, 2002 7:19 pm

cua193 wrote:Paul,

Stop what you're doing - go instantly to:-

http://homepages.tesco.net/~early/lswr/lscol2.html

seems to be pretty definitive!

regards
Richard Osborne

Now there's something we can work with! - I assume mine will be the third green down on the left they were late 1800's and Col Stephens bought/leased them around 1910-1914

johny · Post by **johny** » Tue Nov 19, 2002 8:17 pm

[quote="cua193"]
Hamilton Ellis' painting is a bit fanciful. I have no record of stars on smokeboxes - this was a practice on the Caledonian.

Page 55 of "The Drummond Greyhounds of the LSWR" by DL Bradley has a photograph of No 715 at Nine Elms in May 1920, sporting a star midway between the centre of the smoke-box door and its top edge.

Was the practice on the Caledonian restricted to the Singles only?

pdeee · Post by **pdeee** » Tue Nov 19, 2002 9:48 pm

Here are a couple John, although I think there were more.

Pat.

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