TRS06

atsfrr3000 · Post by **atsfrr3000** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 3:50 pm

P.S. How come this forum doesnt have a seperate forum for Trainz? It seems to have a forum for every other major train sim, and Trainz is certainly a major player in the train sim market, something even seasoned MSTS can't deny very much.

-Chris (tm)

decapod · Post by **decapod** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 4:10 pm

Many thanks for that Chris, it certainly helped explain a few more of the changes.

ChrisGrossman wrote: Again, one of the major complaints of even veteran Trainz users is the comparatively stone-age graphics engine. One thing to keep in mind, however, is that this is indeed the last iteration of Trainz as we know it. Now that TRS2006 is out of the way, Auran will soon begin work on a ground-up rewrite, to be called Rail Sim Pro, in which the graphics engine has also been majorly reworked, and possible even rewritten as well.

I was at the London briefing with Auran back in May - they basically said TRS is at the end of the line, it just can't cope with user demands.
The physics, AI, and especially signalling, will never be accurate - hence RSP.

However they also spent a lot of time slagging off MSTS and saying their competition for RSP would be years away. Consequently they were looking at 2 Years before RSP is released.

TMTS is due in 6 months, and KRS after that (?) - RSP is really going to have to be good.
With the history of upgrades and patches to TRS, I don't have much confidence, especially if they try and rush it.

Christopher125 · Post by **Christopher125** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 4:40 pm

ChrisGrossman wrote:P.S. How come this forum doesnt have a seperate forum for Trainz? It seems to have a forum for every other major train sim, and Trainz is certainly a major player in the train sim market, something even seasoned MSTS can't deny very much.

-Chris (tm)

There was, but I believe it was withdrawn because a) everyone went off to use the god-awful auran forum, b) the constant TRS v MSTS arguments were getting a bit samey after the 200th thread and c) Matt dared to criticise the God that is Trainz 04 (

); Auran were not too happy and decided to sever all links with the site including a possible download manager addon to allow trainz stuff to be downloaded from here - with these things in mind it is very understandable that a Trainz forum wouldn't really be a good idea as it would need a special 'flame proof' server to withstand all the heated arguments

(sorry if I am factually wrong, but this is how I remember the cirsumstances)
Chris

saddletank · Post by **saddletank** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:52 pm

ChrisGrossman wrote:Again, one of the major complaints of even veteran Trainz users is the comparatively stone-age graphics engine. One thing to keep in mind, however, is that this is indeed the last iteration of Trainz as we know it. Now that TRS2006 is out of the way, Auran will soon begin work on a ground-up rewrite, to be called Rail Sim Pro, in which the graphics engine has also been majorly reworked, and possible even rewritten as well.

Hi Chris

That's good news. I've heard this total rewrite is on the way and look forward to it. Hopefully it will be a 2nd generation sim to compete with the others that are looming over the horizon.

Post by **NeutronIC** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 8:12 pm

Two other improvements over TRS2004 are a much-improved physics engine verified by real engineers

With respect, that's what was said about the service pack for TRS2004 as well, only the biggest claim to fame that they quoted (Greg Lane said this to me on the phone) was that if you bedded the fire down and left it overnight, it would be about right when you got back the following day.

I made a note, and it still didn't occur to me to test that when reviewing the sim, I guess it's just not something many people will do

When it came to actually driving the locos, it just didn't feel right, in fact it felt largely like I was driving a diesel that looked like a steamer

Matt.

atsfrr3000 · Post by **atsfrr3000** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:14 pm

NeutronIC wrote:I made a note, and it still didn't occur to me to test that when reviewing the sim, I guess it's just not something many people will do When it came to actually driving the locos, it just didn't feel right, in fact it felt largely like I was driving a diesel that looked like a steamer

Matt.

Chances are you were driving a diesel that looks like a steamer. In the days before TRS2004, when steam was not supported, content creators had to make steam locos that looked like steamers, but still acted like diesels. Then anyone wanting to control them had to use DCC mode, as obviously Cab mode would make it controlled like a diesel as well.

Well, when TRS2004 was released, a lot of creators updated their old models to new specs. However, a few have dropped out of the community, or did not upgrade to TRS2004. Thus, their models are still diesels dressed as steamers.

It is possible to convert them to newer specs without the source mesh. You'll be limited in what you can do, but at least it will act like a steamer, although it probably wont have any TRS2004-specific PFX points or anything. There's a tutorial on doing this out there, lemme know if you want it and I'll find a link for you.

Hope this clears it up a bit.

-Chris (tm)

Post by **NeutronIC** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 5:45 pm

I was just referring to the stock included on the TRS2004 disc, i.e. the mallard and scotsman for example, while they had the new controls they were so over simplified in the way they affected the engine behaviour it was silly... i.e. you got to max speed by having full regulator and full reverser, reducing the reverser reduced the maximum speed you could achieve!

Matt.

02southeranc · Post by **02southeranc** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 7:09 pm

People have said that TRS2004 was a bit of let down. I'm really not sure if I want to buy the 2006 version yet, I'll chew it over for a few weeks!

atsfrr3000 · Post by **atsfrr3000** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 11:27 pm

NeutronIC....Yeah, I agree that the steam physics in TRS2004 were a bit of a let-down. A lot of people (including Auran's external beta-testing crew) have said that the steam physics and controls have been MUCH improved, although I'll have to find out for myself.

I should be getting my copy in a few days (Limited Edition DVD with a metal tin and 330-page manual

) and I can answer a lot of your questions then.

Just as a note, I'm really quite glad that the folks on these forums seem to be a bit more open to discussing and trying Trainz than the folks on other forums...sometimes on the other forums I've been to (not to mention any particular ones) it seems just mentioning Trainz will get you screamed at for weeks...and God help you if you should suggest they try the demo

-Chris (tm)

Post by **NeutronIC** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:19 am

My review copy has arrived, just looking through it at the moment.

Initial thoughts are that it is most definitely a much better Trainz, though the jury is still out on a number of issues that i'm just trying to work through at the moment. The Hawes Junction route and the new Fowler 4F are rather spiffy though

Already got about 4 sides of scribbled notes though and only really gone through driving, started on scenario creation and a bit of surveyor. I don't intend repeating content from previous reviews except perhaps briefly.

UK version from JustTrains is shipped on DVD.

Matt.

johndibben · Post by **johndibben** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 1:39 pm

ChrisGrossman wrote:I should be getting my copy in a few days (Limited Edition DVD with a metal tin and 330-page manual ) and I can answer a lot of your questions then.

I received mine yesterday.

There's some wonderful features especially with the UK wagons. The S&C is better than anything possible in MSTS.

Problems with graphics are often caused by not hving the latest graphics cards.

Content quality and interpretation varies as with MSTS.

The CMP is awful.

With help from a friends I reckon I have it cracked.

It's the best we've got at the moment and already requires high specs.

To achieve the demands of the the sims, some serious money will have to be spent on computers. The price of the sim itself is nothing in comparison. Therefore the cheaper version would be worth buying simply to gain some idea of what the new sims will require.

As for steam loco' physics, I've feeling MSTS provided better physics than we often appreciate and new sims might find it difficult to better them. The amount of variables increase hugely, diesels and electrics are simple by comparison

There's stuff I don't like about Trainz but not enough to put me off buying it. There's far more actual bugs in MSTS.

TRS2006 is little different to MSTS in the lack of info in the manual as regards installing third party content

Cheers

John

Post by **NeutronIC** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:01 pm

The CMP is awful

Can you elaborate John?

Matt.

atsfrr3000 · Post by **atsfrr3000** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 6:49 pm

Just about the only thing I have against CMP (going on what I've heard, I still dont have it

) is that Auran has made it a our-way-or-the-highway thing. Ever since waaaaay back in v1.3 (maybe even sooner!) an awesome fellow by the name of Terry Franks had been making a program called TrainzObjectz. This program has been an indispensible "must-have" for Trainz since it's release shortly after Trainz SP3 (v1.3

) and only kept getting better with each release. It saved almost everyone a ton of headaches. I am very skeptical that CMP will be able to match it for some time.

Other than that, from what I've heard, most complains about CMP are a result of not reading the 330-page color manual (OMG a proper manual

)

Hoping mine comes before Wednesday...I have a football game on Thursday (I'm in the marching band

) and a three-day trip to Grand Junction Friday-Sunday, so I wont have much time to play with it if it comes on Wednesday. If it does, I'll wait till Sunday evening to install it...maybe read the manual on the trip to GJ

-Chris (tm)

Post by **NeutronIC** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:50 pm

The UK version comes with a 77 page manual that is essentially highlights from the 330 page manual, not sure what their logic was in choosing the sections, I think they just went for focusing on how to drive as there's only 1 or 2 pages on surveyor!

The 330 page manual is included in PDF form once installed.

Matt.

johndibben · Post by **johndibben** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:13 pm

NeutronIC wrote:
The CMP is awful
Can you elaborate John?

Matt.

And put my head in a noose? Oh why not?

It's normally the MSTS diehards who havn't seen Trainz for years, if at all, who repeat stuff without seeing it

Trainzers are used to transferring content to each new edition and service pack up to TRS2004 but TRS2006 is very different.

The one and only utility which became a 'must' for Trainz is Trainz Objects by Terry Franks, mentioned above. A superb utility which requires no other software and was used to great affect in managing files. Oh that MSTS should be so simple.

That, or something similar has now been built in. It works but I've not found the instructions and vital settings in the manual. 330 pages is a lot to read and most is precisely the same as TRS2004. Existing users won't plough through all of it. The CMP is vital to add content and I feel it should've been better explained.

However, the info is probably now available on the Auran forums and Trainz is far more Internet orientated with iportals and the like.

Picking up earlier comments I have to say the return to UKTS of those who switched to Trainz isn't substantial as there appears more money to be made in Trainz and those that have appeared in response to the immense interest in Kuju's announcement. That's also brought in new members.

For myself, TRS2006 is a stop gap although possibly a lengthy one until KRS arrives

Not sure about RS Pro as it's been too long coming.

TMTS is the 'Supernatural Sim'. Unseen and mysterious but you feel there might be something in it so you leave well alone and hope for the best

Cheers

John