World Class Model locomotives 2

[jbilton]

Following on from my last post I'll conceed that the BR-DR 98 wheels really let it down....but I still love its LOD...and when its running its poor wheels are not so noticeable.
My intention is not directly to knock UK builders but...not being someone who can build anything....I posted a thread that possibly European/American builders have some new software...which enables them to build these superior models...but was told no there isn't any.
So I still dont understand why Uk models are like they are....because yes I like UK stuff better...but not at the cost of nice looking models...because isn't that what everyone is striving for?
(In 00 talk its like Hornby/Lima verses Bachmann....the first 2 are acceptable...but the later are the real models)
Anyway heres a couple more.

[sg100]

FLAME WAR

[decapod]

I really don't think it's that the models are less detailed, it that the UK prototypes have far less detail on the outside.

Have a look at my Australian D50 on the steam4me site (and the C35 when it comes out soon) - they are built using the same techniques as the UK locos, but have lots more external gubbins (and are under 7000 polys)
The SR baltic I built looks simple by comparison, yet that's because it just doesn't have all the handrails and pipes.

Admittedly some of the UK models are not up to scratch, with poor smoothing, animation and texturing, but I bet you'll find similar models in the other countries, it's all part of the learning process.

Perhaps we should line up some of the best UK models against the rest of the world

...Oddly some of my favourites are Dave Babbs EMU's on the LBE

[buffy500]

...Oddly some of my favourites are Dave Babbs EMU's on the LBE

Ah no don't say that, I'll get all shy.

[robin]

I really don't think it's that the models are less detailed, it that the UK prototypes have far less detail on the outside.

Have a look at my Australian D50 on the steam4me site (and the C35 when it comes out soon) - they are built using the same techniques as the UK locos, but have lots more external gubbins (and are under 7000 polys)
The SR baltic I built looks simple by comparison, yet that's because it just doesn't have all the handrails and pipes.

Admittedly some of the UK models are not up to scratch, with poor smoothing, animation and texturing, but I bet you'll find similar models in the other countries, it's all part of the learning process.

Perhaps we should line up some of the best UK models against the rest of the world

...Oddly some of my favourites are Dave Babbs EMU's on the LBE

Well said. but who is going to decide what are the best UK models? A frought and dodgy exercise at best likely to cause more problems and upsets than prove any point.

Following on from my last post I'll conceed that the BR-DR 98 wheels really let it down....but I still love its LOD...and when its running its poor wheels are not so noticeable.
My intention is not directly to knock UK builders but...not being someone who can build anything....I posted a thread that possibly European/American builders have some new software...which enables them to build these superior models...but was told no there isn't any.
So I still dont understand why Uk models are like they are....because yes I like UK stuff better...but not at the cost of nice looking models...because isn't that what everyone is striving for?
(In 00 talk its like Hornby/Lima verses Bachmann....the first 2 are acceptable...but the later are the real models)

I think your post misses an important point particularly when making comparisons between and to companies like Hornby and Bachmann. Commercial pressures make them challenge each other to compete for market share. The model railway market has shrunk a great deal over the last few years and is no longer a domain where traditionaly Hornby dominated i.e a toy market. It has become a modellers market and Bachmann were the first to see this and focused their output on detailed models not more robust toys. Hornby have had to change. Its new SR Q class loco is as good as anything on the market at the moment.

Anyway that is a long way round of saying that the people who make freeware models are not in a commercial market and so you cannot make the comparison that was made. There is no pressure to do anything or do it in a particular way just what the individual wants to do and how they want to do it. You as a consumer also have a choice download or don't download. It as simple as that.

Alternatively you could put your money where your mouth is and show us all how its done by releasing your own models.

I think there are several peoples UK models that are at least as good as the models you have shown if not better. However you are entittled to your opinion and I respect your right to be wrong!

[jbilton]

Well said. but who is going to decide what are the best UK models? A frought and dodgy exercise at best likely to cause more problems and upsets than prove any point.


I think there are several peoples UK models that are at least as good as the models you have shown if not better. However you are entittled to your opinion and I respect your right to be wrong!

Bring it on....show me your UK World Class beaters....anything....go on surprise me...please.....I really want my computer full of highly detailed UK models.

[robin]

Well said. but who is going to decide what are the best UK models? A frought and dodgy exercise at best likely to cause more problems and upsets than prove any point.


I think there are several peoples UK models that are at least as good as the models you have shown if not better. However you are entittled to your opinion and I respect your right to be wrong!

Bring it on....show me your UK World Class beaters....anything....go on surprise me...please.....I really want my computer full of highly detailed UK models.

Somewhat selective edit of my post and misses the point entirely again.
Your small attempts at trying to tease a response saying "this specific UK model is better" is laughable . Freeware as I said before is about making models that the individual wants to and how they want to do it. If you want to fill your PC with models how you think they should be then you should make your own.

nuff said...

[jbilton]

Hi
I did edit your post because it spent ages waffling on about the Hornby/Bachmann(which has nothing to do with the thread...doesn't interest me...and I had only used it as a poor simmerly).
Going back to my original point....(and no I dont give up)...I dont think UK models are as good.....I hate having my machine full of bug ugly locomotives...I would love to have a H/D full of A3 A4 B1 BofBs Black5s etc.
So please post links,pictures file numbers etc...so that I may fill my H/D.
But the thread was really for our hardened band of loco builders...to try and get them to realise the games moved on in the rest of the world..and to try to encourage them to lift their game....but unfortunately we have the usual defeatist/denial attitude this country seems to suffer from...(however better not get political) nuff said.

[wookey]

Its not defeatist, its just other people have a different opinion to you, get used to it.


i personally find some of our UK models as good as those above, esp the newest ones, i don't deny the above are excellent on the whole but as foreign locos tend to have much more external pipework, pumps etc, i think they are bout to always look more detailed, (or alternitavely in my opinion cluttered and ugly- which is why i like UK locos)

No ones saying the above locos are rubbish because they are from other countries, some of us just feel that its an unustified slur on some of our modellers to cast such a harsh and generalised critisism.

[wookey]

my point at least half put foreward i hope:


warning, pics may be slow loading,

http://www.angelfire.com/droid/danz/images/midland.jpg

http://www.angelfire.com/droid/danz/images/BARPAN4.jpg

http://www.angelfire.com/droid/danz/ima ... e_bank.jpg

[pitleyfalley]

At the end of the day its all a matter of opinion.... and as I feel quite strongly on this matter, here is mine.

As mentioned already, if you dont like the models dont download them. I think it is unfair to say or imply that British modellers are behind the times "encourage them to lift their game", I personally belive that some of the models made by UK modellers are equal if not superiour to the models you have posted pictures of, however I dont know the models shown very well, i do however know that the download avaliable for a GWR pannier (as an example), is the closest thing ive ever seen to a GWR pannier in model form, and im pretty impressed with it.

we have the usual defeatist/denial attitude this country seems to suffer from

Sorry but in my mind thats a load of . to be honest. How is britain more defeatist than the rest of the world. How have we been defeatist in our attidude to MSTS model making!? So many people on these forums have produced high quality addons for MSTS for free, in their own time and at their own expense and choice. Again as already said, they are free modlels, you dont have to download them, and if you aint happy with them, fair enough, thats your choice, I look forward to downloading your first 'quality' addon!

I also dont like seeing model makers 'put down' as it were. How would you like it if you made an addon for MSTS, then were told, "well its ok I guess, but that foreign model is far better?"

Pitley

[Rfairlie]

I couldn't agree more pitley were making these models in our own time and there is only so much you can do in that time. I could spend two years adding every little pipe bolt or rivit but i want to have a life as well. If you don't like it don't download it, or you could e-mail the authour and help them improve it.

Tim

[saddletank]

Looked at post again in cold light of morning and decided to remove.

[timbooth]

Hi
But the thread was really for our hardened band of loco builders...to try and get them to realise the games moved on in the rest of the world..and to try to encourage them to lift their game....but unfortunately we have the usual defeatist/denial attitude this country seems to suffer from...(however better not get political) nuff said.

So, where's your super-detailed steam loco then? You obviously feel we can all do better so that surely applies to yourself.

Its easy to be critical when you have no idea whats involved. All you have done is taken a few of what you consider 'the best' from around the world and compared everything else against them. I think you will find the freeware standard around the world is pretty much the same, its just a few individuals in each country are producing top quality models - either because they are more talented, or because they have more time/experience.

IMHO there's little to be gained from comparing against what you consider 'the best of the best' - enjoy whats available, and encourage updates in a positive and supportive way. Patronising developers or moaning about quality is one sure way to put people off developing freeware models.

I've been working on a superdetail UK loco, so I can tell you its not at all easy - as soon as start adding detail you can't really stop until you've added all detail down to the level where its not noticable or can be achieved better in the texture. Once you add detail, those in the know will soon spot errors or omissions, you can be sure of that.

GWR 2251 Class

Thats about as detailed as that class gets, no crazy pipework or fancy motion here. I've already reached 12000 polygons and probably likely to finish at 13000. I could easily churn out more primitive models in a fraction of the time, but thats not they way I want to work. Each modeller has their own ability and level of detail they are happy with, you should respect that.

Also, if everyone produced top quality superdetailed models, the file library would be very sparse indeed - then you'd be moaning nothing is available, instead of the quality.[/img]

[stevesherratt]

Hi Jon so whats the problem .

Re - ukts file id 7825

D5718, Metrovick Co-Bo,in plain green.Produced by Steve in Ozz back in 2001 and now uploaded to UKTrainsim with his kind permission.

Tweaks to the .eng file by Jon Bilton.

According to Steve: "This Loco has been uploaded only because of ukts forum requests. It is a fairly crude model by today's standards." It's still a very useful piece of kit though, and thanks go to Steve for his permission to put it in the library.

Hey Jon

thanks for getting my rather poor example of a class 28 uploaded .

No Flame war its just a fact

Very Funny stuff in the concept of this thread

steve in ozz