Atomic Systems

Hi Guys

Firstly let me state quite clearly that I DO NOT and have not advocated breaking forum rules. This forum AND those who post in it must comply with the law of the land.

Lets NOT debate that, but rather address how this issue might be moved forward?

To summarise some of the issues.

Those who read the thread on TS.com will see that there is something of a dispute on the EULA of the last freeware version of Conbuilder. Having said that those who have downloads of the freeware version have an EULA and that surely has to stand.

Since it became payware Conbuilder has moved on by several versions and has increased capacity over the last freeware version.

Apart from the payware version there was a "Lite" version.

Some questions then.....

As the freeware version is available at various download sites (Google it) why can't it be available here?

As supporters of this site have been affected by recent developments could they not register with a "private forum" within the forums to register and exchange information on issues that affect them as customers? I only suggest this as other forums have locked threads where legitimate complaints have been raised. This is an area that perhaps UKTS could offer some support to those who've supported them?

Did the "Lite" Version have more functions than the last freeware version or less? Is it still available? If not, why not?

Who benefitted from voluntary contributions made before the programme became payware? Did those who contribued receive a payware version when it was released?

Obviously only Matt can address some of those questions, Charles or Joe others, but feedback from the community at large might clarify some of the issues here?

Geoff

I will answer the questions I know the answers to.

lateagain wrote:
Did the "Lite" Version have more functions than the last freeware version or less? Is it still available?

Less. No

lateagain wrote: Who benefitted from voluntary contributions made before the programme became payware? Did those who contribued receive a payware version when it was released?

Geoff

Yes

I might be wrong here, but im gonna throw in my two cents

The vast majority of people who own msts would be willing to pay for conbuilder, rather than download it from pirated websites. It seems to me to be a fairly large community, but not nearly as large as the MSFS community (which is pirated through the roof). I cant believe anyone who wants to support the MSTS community would download rather than actually paying for ConBuilder, as it can clearly be seen that it is detrimental to everyone who loves MSTS.

My point is, yes it may be up on torrent sites, but id still be willing to pay for it as would the vast majority of other trainsimmers.

I would just like to apologise - I had confused two of my posts and they had not been edited - it was early !

Sincere apologies, I got it wrong there.

Ali

daztheviking wrote:I might be wrong here, but im gonna throw in my two cents

The vast majority of people who own msts would be willing to pay for conbuilder, rather than download it from pirated websites.
<snip>

Yes, you are wrong. I say that because I know how many MSTS users have paid for ConBuilder. They are in a Spreadsheet I have so I can verify that they are eligable to join the Private ConBuilder Support Forum. And I when I look at how many have downloaded some recent popular Route files at the Train-Sim.com library such as Surfliner and the new PRR. I know that the number is but a fraction.

daztheviking wrote:I might be wrong here, but im gonna throw in my two cents

The vast majority of people who own msts would be willing to pay for conbuilder, rather than download it from pirated websites. It seems to me to be a fairly large community, but not nearly as large as the MSFS community (which is pirated through the roof). I cant believe anyone who wants to support the MSTS community would download rather than actually paying for ConBuilder, as it can clearly be seen that it is detrimental to everyone who loves MSTS.

My point is, yes it may be up on torrent sites, but id still be willing to pay for it as would the vast majority of other trainsimmers.

No offence but I think you need to read ALL the thread(s).

NO ONE is promoting downloading pirated software from torrent sites. My reference to downloads on Google was regarding the last FREEWARE version of conbuilder. The whole issue is that the developer who has worked to improve the programme since it ceased to be a freeware programme has "shut up shop" leaving you no way of purchasing it even if you wanted to. IMO a bizarre response to pirating as it merely invites folk with less scruples than sense to support the pirates

Lets face it there's little in todays world that ISN'T pirated which begs the question why does the real thing still sell? I can only speak for myself but as far as I'm concerned it's because the real thing is built to a recognised standard and quality. Not only do I not buy pirated DVD's but I wouldn't take a loan of one if offered. I can rent the REAL thing and enjoy it in it's full quality for less than an inferior pirated version. Sadly the bargain seeking brigade are easy targets for the unscrupulous and so the trade is perpetuated.

crstagg wrote:...... I know how many MSTS users have paid for ConBuilder. They are in a Spreadsheet I have so I can verify that they are eligable to join the Private ConBuilder Support Forum. And I when I look at how many have downloaded some recent popular Route files at the Train-Sim.com library such as Surfliner and the new PRR. I know that the number is but a fraction.

Charles,

I appreciate that you are in a difficult position here and in Joe's absence you're fielding all the flack. If I can make some suggestions or observations that might not only win back good feeling for all you and Joe's hard work, but also promote further development and sales of Conbuilder.

I MUST STRESS to all other readers that these are suggestions ...NOT demands.

1) Allow the last freeware version to be uploaded to TS.com and UKTS et al. Its limitations might encourage more sales of the latest version?

2) Relax the over restrictive licence. Nowadays several folk have more than one machine and they just aren’t going to buy more than one copy.

3) Look at the CD in the drive security option to protect your work ....or at least something less OTT than the present USERCHK. Several of us are always fiddling with the innards of our machines so that's just a waste of money and has hacked off genuine customers. You'd also have less admin to cope with wouldn't you?

4) Lower the price a bit. If it isn’t selling there's a reason. Same as anything else. Get the price right and you get more sales? As Lord Cohen (Tesco Supermarket founder) used to say "stack em high, sell em fast". (I do appreciate that the CD option involves costs but everybody would appreciate that)

You and Joe aren't going to retire on this? Am I right? If you work something out along the suggested lines at least you'll get some reward for your efforts and everyone (well of course there's always some ) will love you for it? So far, from where I sit, you just lashed out at the good guys and the pirate scum are laughing at us all?

Geoff

crstagg wrote: And I when I look at how many have downloaded some recent popular Route files at the Train-Sim.com library such as Surfliner and the new PRR. I know that the number is but a fraction.

I think i have too optimistic a view on modern society

As a new trainsimmer though, i now have no access to conbuilder whatsoever, as i know about as much of finding my way around pirated websites as the avarage sheep Surely at least still hosting the free version on a website would be better for the trainsim community as a whole?

lateagain wrote:

crstagg wrote:...... I know how many MSTS users have paid for ConBuilder. They are in a Spreadsheet I have so I can verify that they are eligable to join the Private ConBuilder Support Forum. And I when I look at how many have downloaded some recent popular Route files at the Train-Sim.com library such as Surfliner and the new PRR. I know that the number is but a fraction.

Charles,

I appreciate that you are in a difficult position here and in Joe's absence you're fielding all the flack. If I can make some suggestions or observations that might not only win back good feeling for all you and Joe's hard work, but also promote further development and sales of Conbuilder.

I MUST STRESS to all other readers that these are suggestions ...NOT demands.

1) Allow the last freeware version to be uploaded to TS.com and UKTS et al. Its limitations might encourage more sales of the latest version?

2) Relax the over restrictive licence. Nowadays several folk have more than one machine and they just aren’t going to buy more than one copy.

3) Look at the CD in the drive security option to protect your work ....or at least something less OTT than the present USERCHK. Several of us are always fiddling with the innards of our machines so that's just a waste of money and has hacked off genuine customers. You'd also have less admin to cope with wouldn't you?

4) Lower the price a bit. If it isn’t selling there's a reason. Same as anything else. Get the price right and you get more sales? As Lord Cohen (Tesco Supermarket founder) used to say "stack em high, sell em fast". (I do appreciate that the CD option involves costs but everybody would appreciate that)

You and Joe aren't going to retire on this? Am I right? If you work something out along the suggested lines at least you'll get some reward for your efforts and everyone (well of course there's always some ) will love you for it? So far, from where I sit, you just lashed out at the good guys and the pirate scum are laughing at us all?

Geoff

Those are items for Joe to decide. However #2 has already been done. When Joe announced ver 4.## He announced that one purchase was good for registration of two PC to use ConBuilder. He also announced that all purchasers of ConBuilder would also receive MSTSmanager which had been sold as a separate program.

Trouble is Charles, with the licensing system in place, I, as a registered user, cannot use a legit copy of Conbuilder. Reason being, I sent Joe my userchk file some time ago. That PC is now dead. I am entitled to an upgrade to v4, but that requires me to send an updated userchk file for my current PC to Joe, which won't be dealt with for the forseeable future.

Given that Joe has health & other issues ongoing, the fact that he alone appears to be able to deal with licensing issues, is a serious downside in the viability of the product.

Charles,
if you read this I suggest that Joe "resigns" from ConBuilder and you take it over, its clear that Joe
will not have anything more to do with it, and he treats all customers and possible customers as pirates.
That is his problem, to him we are all pirates.

Or, you take over Conbuilder, if its Joe who does the programming of it, and if he is willing to do so, let him
do just that and only that, but now you will be the "head man" as it were so you will be dealing with us customers,
changes are absolutely essential to get it going again.
Or get another programmer.

I don't know you at all, but I'd think you would treat with your customers as they should be treated.
There is and will always be some piracy but the honest / genuine customers vastly outweigh them.

Charles, you can read here just how many people want Conbuilder to continue, please consider it.

I have convinced Joe that he made a rash decision in declaring ConBuilder dead. What appeared to be pirated copies of recent versions, do not work when downloaded. Joe has decided to reopen ConBuilder to new users. We are working to create version 4.1.0 which will add a tool for the user to set Consist Durability and will add the feature of ConBuilder automatically calculating the Consist MaxVelocity values. Previous versions of ConBuilder had a tool for the user to enter these values, but it was hidden in the menu and few knew how to use it.

We are also working on change to our registration process which will make the process more user friendly and eliminate the problems ISPs limiting email attachment file sizes and not allowing certain types of files to be downloaded.

However, ConBuilder will not be reopened to new purchasers until version 4.1.0 is ready for release.

Thanks for that information Charles.

It is good to hear that things are getting back to normal again and let's hope that anyone still experiencing problems will soon be sorted out.

Well well, how very interesting.

It will be interesting to see how this will sit with the work recently done by Mike Simpson for consist creation within Route Riter.

Commercial ware versus donation ware will be an interesting side effect of this methinks

Personally I will continue with Route Riter especially as my personal finances are not brilliant and I am reluctant to spend money where not necessary.

I will watch this thread with interest!

ruf

Interesting comment Ruf

As the new thread is running, I think its time to end this one.

http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewtopic. ... 8&t=100146

Glyn