can any one identify this loco...

numnutz · Post by **numnutz** » Thu Nov 21, 2002 7:22 pm

Hi, can any one identify this steam loco pictured here at Ongar station?

http://www.pendar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ ... ngar03.jpg

GavinW · Post by **GavinW** » Thu Nov 21, 2002 10:47 pm

I think it is one of the 5 foot gauge Finnish engines imported to the UK a few years ago. Not a lot of use to a fledgling railway like the Epping/Ongar route as, unlike MSTS, you cxannot run different gauge locos on the same tracks

!!

numnutz · Post by **numnutz** » Fri Nov 22, 2002 7:38 pm

I found another pic - It looks a bit Southern to me

<IMG width="400" height="300" SRC="http://album.atomic-systems.com/showPic ... /ongar.jpg">

Hope this can help

duncharris · Post by **duncharris** » Sat Nov 23, 2002 1:32 pm

numnutz wrote:I found another pic - It looks a bit Southern to me

<IMG width="400" height="300" SRC="http://album.atomic-systems.com/showPic ... /ongar.jpg">

Hope this can help

Thats definitely not British. Okay, its green and has smoke deflectors, so it kinda looks like a Schools class, but;

1) The tender is American style like those introduced on WD locos during the second world war. Those of that style ran with BR standard locos, Ivatt 4F and 2F 2-6-0s, WD 2-8-0s and 2-10-0s. The WD tenders were also used with a Duchess (I think!) and a rebuilt Royal Scot on the 1948 locomotive trials over the Southern as for some reason they didn't have any water troughs.
2) There are far too many pipes, etc along the boiler which was never really a feature of British locos. I dont know why but it made ours look prettier!
3) The cab, chimney and dome are too large for the size of the boiler, in a British loco they would be smaller so as to pass through Britain's restricted loading gauge. And look at the carriages behind it which are smaller, yet they aren't LU stock like thats in the foreground.
4) It doesn't look like anything that is British, and I could probably identify most big four and BR standard locos, especially LMS ones. Though the Ongar line was part of the LNER, not the Southern.

So it probably is Finnish, but I can't find anything on the internet. I dont think it would be too much trouble to regauge something from 5' to 4'8Â½".

There seemed to be a political row involving Martin Bell about whether it should be reopened though.

There have been foreign steam locos in this country before. The first one that Springs to mind is King Haakon VII or VIII? on the GCR. And there might be a French one somewhere too.

GavinW · Post by **GavinW** » Sat Nov 23, 2002 5:05 pm

I dont think it would be too much trouble to regauge something from 5' to 4'8Â½".

Oh yes? A lot of fairly heavy engineering required and not just a 5 minute job, or we would be over run with foreign engines regauged to 4'8.5"

Not the sort of job for a small, new railway as even the Severn Valley would think twice about it.

duncharris · Post by **duncharris** » Sat Nov 23, 2002 6:31 pm

GavinW wrote:[quote = "duncharris"]I dont think it would be too much trouble to regauge something from 5' to 4'8Â½".

Oh yes? A lot of fairly heavy engineering required and not just a 5 minute job, or we would be over run with foreign engines regauged to 4'8.5"

Not the sort of job for a small, new railway as even the Severn Valley would think twice about it.[/quote]

Okay there's engineering difficulties, it would probably need new wheelsets, and would be expensive, but I wasn't thinking of that when I submitted the first post

. Im not an engineer - I'm a biologist, so being able to tell the difference between an Ivatt build black 5 and a Stanier build black 5 has its advantages

- the main difference is in the placement of the dome, its further forward on the Ivatt locos. Now butterflies anyone?

Overrun with foreign locos? Not likely,

The Irish have about the same loading gauge but run on 5'3". The Iberians run on a larger loading gauge on 5'6" and the Russians and the former Russian imperialistic areas run on 5'. Best to run them in Finland, etc.

So why is it here anyway?

Yes new railways need Austerity tanks, though I think that there will be problems in the future with preserved railways as anyone who remembers steam on its last legs gets a bit senile (apologies to anyone who does

), with only some being feasible.

mikesimpson · Post by **mikesimpson** » Sat Nov 23, 2002 9:12 pm

Well, I have no idea what it is, but I enlarged the original photo, and it seems to be either a 2-8-2 or a 4-8-2, certainly 4 driving wheels visible on the side view and a set of small wheels under the cab.

North British built a lot of 4-8-2s for the Sudan with a lot of pipes along the side of the boiler in the early 50s.

wookey · Post by **wookey** » Sat Nov 23, 2002 11:21 pm

here you are people'

i had a search around on the web, using the possible wheel arrangement, and country of origin of that loco, and although i could'nt find the loco type itself, i think iv'e found a member of a class resembling our loco, it's a Finnish 4-6-2 but there seems to be a strong family resemblence to the loco we're looking at.
i think the tender, cab, smoke deflectors, dome, smokebox door, smokebox handrail and boiler fittings clinch it, so i think it's fair to assume it is indeed from finland.

Anyway see what you lot reckon,
http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/fi/ste ... 1_Hels.jpg

numnutz · Post by **numnutz** » Sat Nov 23, 2002 11:35 pm

thanks for all your replies - I think it is from Finland as everyone suggests I suppose it will eventually have a face painted on it and will be called Claus or something similar.

It is nice to see some railway activity at Ongar (though I am unaware of the age of the photograph. It was a pity that the Preservation society was pushed out.

There may have been steam running by now if they had.

NN

Stooopidperson · Post by **Stooopidperson** » Sun Nov 24, 2002 3:44 am

numnutz wrote:I found another pic - It looks a bit Southern to me

<IMG width="400" height="300" SRC="http://album.atomic-systems.com/showPic ... /ongar.jpg">

Hope this can help

Well, the grey train is the 1962 stock.

1crick14a · Post by **1crick14a** » Sun Nov 24, 2002 9:37 am

It looks very much like one the 5 Loco's that were brought quite a while back, and stored in a Metal Fabrication yard in a place called Acton in Suffolk they may even still be there.........R

isambardkingdombrunel · Sun Nov 24, 2002 9:58 am

Its european.

IKB.