"What is the future of MSTS?"

[1crick14a]

However, MSTS hobbles along, splints, casts and stitches..............

............. and a lot of us enjoy being able to doctor it in that way!

David

Well said David that is very true.

Regards, Rick

[jbilton]

However, MSTS hobbles along, splints, casts and stitches..............

............. and a lot of us enjoy being able to doctor it in that way!

David

Well said David that is very true.

Regards, Rick

Hi
Agreed.... there is a certain sense of achievement.

Cheers
Jon

[CaptainBazza]

It will survive, like the Amiga (remember) did, until the old die-hards fade away. There are a lot of frustrations with the old sim, I should know, I've had a very long love/hate relationship with it. I have a couple of TS projects near completion, but I've gone on to modeling for RW during the last 4 or 5 months and have hardly looked at the TS stuff....I'll have to be careful I don't forget how to do things the TS way.

RW is attractive to the modeler because there are many new aspects to it that allow more detailed models, even if the physics lack in some areas. All I have to do is learn how the process the new source files so they load into RW. I would like to be able to port over some of my later MSTS models, too. One has been ported already, by on my behalf, and it turned out quite well for a 2004 model, although the physics are ., so currently awaiting a complete rejink of them.

I suppose it depends on what you like doing in the hobby, but as long as you can still buy TS and the OS will run it, then I see it lasting for perhaps as much as four to five years....but I'm quite happy to be proved wrong.

Cheers Bazza

[lateagain]

I've just put some thoughts on paper in response to Matt's front page request for feedback from creators on the front page. What have I created? Nothing as complete as an entire model but I've done a lot of tweaking and reskinning for the stock in MEP. That weak justification aside the point I tried to emphasise is.... why either or?

Why should the future for MSTS NOT be good?

Even if you like RS/RW or Trainz or BVE or ALL of them.....

Why would you not have all or any selection of the above on your computer? With todays machines Disc Space is hardly a concern? Already a good few modellers/creators have worked on a number of the above.

To my mind the greatest risk to our hobby is if those creating stuff nail their flag to one mast and shun all others.

I can see that (as I understand it from posts on these forums) the newer programmes give modellers the chance to build more complex models. I can see that that gives them a creative challenge and the satisfaction of doing something better than has previously been possible.

BUT. There is SO much more to a simulator than great models. That's not to detract from modellers or their skills. On the contrary I've huge respect for their patience and creative efforts. It's just that however pretty the model is..... it only comes to life in the Simulated world of sound, scenery and physics. If you just want to create fantastic 3D models and texture them without restriction there's plenty out there that make train simulator models of ANY simulator look like sketches. However they exist as isolated pieces of 3D computer art. They do not and cannot function in the way that a train sim model does. The "art" of creation for train simulators is to create within strictly defined parameters. It's a challenge. The Creativity comes from getting round the limitations. You only have to look at the default stock and pick almost any new file from the library to see how well folk have responded to this challenge.

The fact is that whatever the limitations MSTS has been "in development" now for 8+ years (?) and the skills of those who've persevered have obviously improved. There has been so much input in so many areas of the Sim that it's outlasted any software of it's era.

So what? Well although I see that there are differences in the software, the creative process and software used.... The end result is just another Simulated Train to be driven on another simulated route surrounded by simulated scenery and simulated AI traffic. You can only drive one train on one route at a time. Are you SERIOUSLY going to ditch MSTS and all of its hundreds of routes and stock just because a newer sim enables prettier models?

Having said that if the incentive is there why would you not use another Sim to drive another train on another route?

I just don't "get" this "OMG there's something new! ....so everything before it is dead" idea. Why aren't folk seeing developments as "additions" rather than replacements?

Geoff

[peterdore]

Geoff
I couldnt agree more with your post, my thoughts exactly

Pete

[1crick14a]

Are you SERIOUSLY going to ditch MSTS and all of its hundreds of routes and stock just because a newer sim enables prettier models?

In a word NO.

Regards, Rick

[jbilton]

Are you SERIOUSLY going to ditch MSTS and all of its hundreds of routes and stock just because a newer sim enables prettier models?

In a word NO.

Regards, Rick

Hi
Well I might ..... if I thought they were 'prettier'.
I've come to think of it in model railway terms... MSTS being like 00 gauge and KRS being like 0 gauge.
Initially, if you had the money and space , a small branch could look better in 0 than the same modelled in 00.
However as 00 has developed, the models are nearly as detailed, working lights, sprung buffers, DCC control, better motors, sound etc.
The 0 gauge has lost most of its earlier advantages, but is still saddled with its size and cost.
We seriously need a newer simulator, that advances on MSTS, but its not KRS.
Cheers
Jon

[systema]

We seriously need a newer simulator, that advances on MSTS, but its not KRS.

Spot on John. Its such a pity but.........., if folk are happy with KRS then good luck to them.

However, for me, KRS appears to be saddled with all sorts of problems. I regularly read the RW and RS forums and its very worrying- hardly anyone seems to be able to do anything except drive expensive, if pretty, models without proper interaction with other trains, through what often looks like dire scenery. RW is far too complex and expensive with the leaning towards having to pay for nearly everything new, or so it seems, and it can't even control trains properly without a major undertaking in creating a scenario. I say this without ever having run KRS, so I apologise if this is nonsense, but all the negative talk and problems highlighted on the other forums puts me completely off the new sim.

I think I have at least 10 more years ahead of me to complete MEP. Who knows one day it might reach Aberdeen, if the old sim can take it. Unless there are serious improvements in something else somewhere, I will keep plugging away with MEP.

Question is, will anything better be published before I reach Edinburgh?

Mick Clarke

[longbow]

The future is a gradual fade to oblivion I imagine. MSTS still has its strengths but it's a technology cul-de-sac, and newer sims are only going to get better. I enjoy route building and content creation and RW is in my view vastly superior for both.

[J94Fan]

The moment I see J94s, Terriers, Class 03s, Class 04s, and a Class 14 ..... I'll consider RW . Until that day, I will soldier on with MSTS ...

[dennisat]

Has anyone turned their mind to providing content convertors to transfer MSTS routes, models and activities into RW? (and perhaps vice-versa!) Surely the prospect of re-creating 7 years of development from scratch is one of the main deterrents to switching to RW. There is also the danger that half way through the job yet another Sim and therefore another conversion problem arrives. Would you use a new, super, Spreadsheet or Word Processor if it meant manually typing in all your previous documents? Office software providers know that their new packages wouldn't even get off the ground if they were totally isolated from the existing world and always provide convertors. There would be a great deal more enthusiasm for these new Sims if people could port their existing MSTS configurations to them. As it stands I feel that faced with all these Sims that are all blind alleys in the end, since software and hardware advance relentlessly, support for Rail Simming in general will get divided and gradually fade away. There's pessimism for you.

Before anyone suggests that perhaps I should do something about it then, I don't think one individual could do it unless they were totally familiar with the internals of the Sims and Windows. I've never got into Windows, I was an IBM mainframe and HP/UX man before retiring this year.

Now how about someone like Mike Simpson? (ducks quickly)

Dennis

[ianmacmillan]

I agree that some form of converter is required.

If could press a button in TSM maked "Convert to Railworks" I would spam the site with wagons.

As it is, learning a new modelling program and figuring out how to get a model to work is just too many tricks for this old dog to learn.



and the wagons would be free.

[bigvern]

If could press a button in TSM maked "Convert to Railworks" I would spam the site with wagons.

Having just got MSTS back up to speed for route building on the laptop I also set up TSM. My immediate thought was, if only this had a converter or a reworked version for RS/RW. It really was a godsend. I know 3DC has its supporters but I've never really got to grips with it. TSM is just so...perfect for my level of 3D modelling skill (i.e. not very high) for getting textures on the objects, etc. etc. It's one of the main things that has attracted me back into MSTS as a development platform.

[mickrik]

Hi there,

I know 3DC has its supporters

I am fairly new to the modelling part of the sim so I did not purchase TSM, I purchased 3DC professional with a view to looking to the future when MSTS2 was on the horizon and using the flightsimFX engine.

So I built the first model (Peckett) and exported it to MSTS because that Is the sim I know and love.

MSTS2 was cancelled so I have an excellent modeling program with which to build some new model content for MSTS. I have just uploaded an 8F suitable for SMJ.

mickrik

[barrybryce01475]

Having BINd my MSTS (Yeah, I know, a bit slow. I'm one of these "if it ain't broke don't fix it" sorts of people) and having installed NWC and Scottish Central, and having finally had a chance to play with them, I don't think I could say the future for MSTS seems anything other than quite surprisingly bright.

There's something about Microsoft products; they're irritatingly basic, horribly buggy, and give us lots of things we love to moan about. However they also somehow manage to be the ones we stick with, because they are what everyone has, because they are what everyone writes for, because they are what everyone has WIP for, because they can be pulled about played with and adapted, because although we don't want to accept it they must somehow actually be the best...

I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't a lot of life left in the old dog yet. If we'd said when RS first came out that by now MSTS would still be thriving as well as it is, and that there'd still be as much being released and being produced as there is, who would have believed us? But in fact it's RS that will probably die first!

I was excited when RS came out and got it pretty fast, but that was about it. I never used it much, don't at all any more, and I'm not buying the new version. When I do have time to play with something it's always MSTS that gets my vote!

It not having some way of converting content from MSTS was probably a fatal mistake. It's a bit like converting to Linux or an Apple Mac. It may, depending in opinion, be better. But not many people are going to take the risk when it involves leaving a world of software behind.