North Wales Coast - review

General MSTS related discussion that doesn't really fit into any of the other specific forums.

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Baily9531
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Re: North Wales Coast - review

Post by Baily9531 »

deltic100 wrote:Hi i was going to buy N.W.C But since I Read the Issues in the Route and know they are patches
But like the East Lanc's add on after year or so they re Realest it but i like the Sound of they maybe a N.W.C 2 So Maybe it will go from Crewe to Holyhead So untill then I will Sit Back and Relax and Watch N.W.C Fun unfold
hi, you'll be missing out on the fun!
NWC2 is only a possiblity at present, not set in stone, the new batch of disks include patch 5 already on it, so should be plug and play, of course there might be minor issues, as John has stated, i dont know of an add on thats come out fault free, everyones PC spec and set up is different and your bound to get someone somewhere with issues. And as John says, you can only do so much during development, then the best way forward is to release and resolve the minor issuses as they come in.
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rikwesson
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Re: North Wales Coast - review

Post by rikwesson »

Hi, me again. I put in patch 3 and the problem with the class 25 was sorted. Put in patch 5 and this came up again in trainstore :

Warning: - Item No. 1
The definition of the locomotive in the Consist file is different to the specification in the Engine parameter in the locomotive file
(They should be identical)
This will stop the Consist from appearing in the MSTS Explore selection list
Consist "File: '9F10(t).con'
Engine "File: 'NWC_25083\NWC_25083_vac.ENG'

Cannot put in patch 3 again as I deleted it when I downloaded no.5. Any thoughts as to why is being flagged up again?

Many thanks, Rik.
Lad491
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Re: North Wales Coast - review

Post by Lad491 »

Ive spotted a signalling bug and a scenery bug :( how would you like this reported? Should I post here, PM you, or email support somewhere?
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alanch
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Re: North Wales Coast - review

Post by alanch »

There is a thread for bug reports here, Laurie http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewtopic. ... &start=120 .
Alan

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Lots of steam and early diesels from 1959 to 1963.
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Re: North Wales Coast - review

Post by Lad491 »

Thanks Alan :) Thats the last page i would have thought to look at, in fact I never look at any of those threads in the bottom half of the screen :(

9 pages :( i'll have to have a read through and see if they have already been reported. I'll also need to take some screenshots to show the signalling issue.
Last edited by Lad491 on Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Baily9531
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Re: North Wales Coast - review

Post by Baily9531 »

Can people please post faults and bugs in the one thread please, its becoming a knightmare to read all faults and track them down, if in one place its easier to do.
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Baily9531
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Re: North Wales Coast - review

Post by Baily9531 »

rikwesson wrote:Hi, me again. I put in patch 3 and the problem with the class 25 was sorted. Put in patch 5 and this came up again in trainstore :

Warning: - Item No. 1
The definition of the locomotive in the Consist file is different to the specification in the Engine parameter in the locomotive file
(They should be identical)
This will stop the Consist from appearing in the MSTS Explore selection list
Consist "File: '9F10(t).con'
Engine "File: 'NWC_25083\NWC_25083_vac.ENG'

Cannot put in patch 3 again as I deleted it when I downloaded no.5. Any thoughts as to why is being flagged up again?

Many thanks, Rik.
Hi, bit of a f up on our part, i updated, jim updated some brake parameters and overwrote mine! Sorted again now and will be in the next patch.
Restoring D8233 & D5705
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rikwesson
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Re: North Wales Coast - review

Post by rikwesson »

Hi, thanks for the quick reply. Sorry about reporting the problem here, I didn't realise there was a thread with problems elsewhere. :)
Many thanks, Rik.
deltic100
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Re: North Wales Coast - review

Post by deltic100 »

Hi am Running windows XP patches do not worry me But I have got some community CDs
for £4.50 and they run better than a Route for £25.00 So you would have thought £25.00 ones
Be good but when the new batch of discs Come out I will order it and will it be come available on
UKTS CD ordering because I may have to pay by Cheque
BobLatimer
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Re: North Wales Coast - review

Post by BobLatimer »

"deltic100", since you don't have this route yet, what is your basis for deciding that community CDs run "better"? And how do you define "better" anyway?

Please don't post just for the sake of posting. Post when you have something to add to the discussion.
Last edited by BobLatimer on Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Baily9531
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Re: North Wales Coast - review

Post by Baily9531 »

deltic100 wrote:Hi am Running windows XP patches do not worry me But I have got some community CDs
for £4.50 and they run better than a Route for £25.00 So you would have thought £25.00 ones
Be good but when the new batch of discs Come out I will order it and will it be come available on
UKTS CD ordering because I may have to pay by Cheque
Hmm, as some route CD;s for £4.50 dont have the stock route or activities on the magnatude that NWC has i dont think they can compare TBH. But anyway. No the DVD will not be available via UKTS, and dont insult me for that either, it is pure logistics of doing it that prevents us, it would be an adminstration headache. You can order via cheque from our site, you just need to read the webpages, download and open the printable order and send off..
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lateagain
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Re: North Wales Coast - review

Post by lateagain »

"deltic 100" In fairness you didn't specify NWC when you made your comparison but none the less let me give you some statistics and make a few points about the difference between payware routes and community routes.

FIRSTLY though let's remember that the cost of NWC route is because it's a "charity" route and that it's proceeds are going to some unique loco restoration projects. Much of what we can enjoy in the UK in our restored railways is down to charitable contribution and hours of voluntary work. It's the same spirit that brings you the community route discs only the effort is a bit messier :lol:, heavier and it involves "real world" costs. Having visited several railway museums and restored railways in the US I can assure you that even in that comparitively rich country there is little to touch the scale and standard of preservation in this country. We have a huge heritage asset in our preserved railways and it's stock. On my visit to to Strathspey Railway a few days ago there were at least a dozen unique pieces of stock awaiting refurbishment and the guy I met there made me think that if the enthusiasm for these projects was matched by money they'd, like many other preserved railways, would be matching (even beating?) the NRM's standards?

But now to Chris's points.

The huge advantage of including a large stock pack with a route, commercial or freeware, is that you can "set up" the stock included so that it has compatible couplings, brakes and performance. Copyright dictates that stock for commercial routes will be unique and there's no doubt that MT and BATS have bought some outstanding new models to the scene. As Dave has pointed out these are at very small margins of profit.

Freeware has the advantage that authors of existing freeware models will almost always allow use of their models in stock packs for routes. With reskinning and tweaking to the factors I've already mentioned you construct a prototypical pack for the era the route is set in. However this all takes time and there are so many edits required in MSTS's "naming" method within the files that actually allow your model to run in the sim that it's incredibly easy, however carefully you work, to miss something. These are minor edits but can be found by various utilities. Why aren't they found then? Well it takes a massive amount of time to produce a route to current MSTS standards and there are so many aspects to the programming that goes into that too. Even with a large team working on a project they'll have their "real lives" as a priority and only so many man hours they can devote to the project. When Chris talks about "having a rest" .......believe me anyone who's been involved in creating stuff will know exactly what he means.

To give you some idea MEP, which many folk have questioned the release date for, has had well over 80 patches and upgrades in it's development and some of these have required many re-writes of activities, modifications to signalling etc. These mods all have to be retested and hopefully on as many types and specs of machine as possible. Even then stuff gets missed.

There is a world of difference too in some of the modern commercial routes and the sort of track found in many community or period route discs. Modern railways are very simple affairs compared with those of 30-60 years ago. Sidings have vanished track simplified for high speed running etc. The simpler your route's track the less potential for problems. Some commercial add ons have VERY limited amounts of stock too. You pay's your money and you takes your choice.

The most important thing is that whoever the routes author/publisher is they listen to feedback and respond as quickly as possible to correct errors. IMHO Chris couldn't have done better?

In short perfect add-ons for an aged and imperfect bit of software are obviously everyones goal but reality stacks the odds of achieving this against the developer. As long as they fix what can be fixed you can't realistically ask for more.

Geoff
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Re: North Wales Coast - review

Post by jbilton »

Hi
I fully support Bob's ,Chris's and Geoff's statements and opinions.
And the D8233 project is fantastic. :P
However just for info....I'm also aware that 'Deltic100' is a young person, with some learning difficulties, and a limited budget.

On a personal level I'm not sure how people find the funds to pursue their hobbies these days ...... I can morally find only around £25 a month.
This certainly rules out special train journeys, visits to UKTS roadshows, and trips to preserved lines etc for me.
Maybe I should become a student, there's one on here that seems to be able to go on every special train in the UK, including 3 day trips (Not sure what education course allows for that)
I do enjoy MSTS and buying Rail books off Ebay.... so I'm not complaining. :D

Cheers
Jon
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Re: North Wales Coast - review

Post by JamesC »

I've received the dvd this morning, it says version 1.05 on the dvd, do I need to install the patches?
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Re: North Wales Coast - review

Post by JamesC »

Every time I load an activity a window opens saying "Service 1K38 is out of date. Please re-save in Activity Editor."
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