does any one know why....

[n863dwt]

does anyone know why GNER are not investing in a new fleet of HST style trains like virgin and mml etc.....???

i mean as nice and tidy as their trains are (most of the time) they are older than most intercity trains....!

What do you think.......?

[Stooopidperson]

I'd say buy(or rent) eurostars since they are comfy but the problem is whether they have the money!

[Kevo00]

GNER have absolutely no need to replace their current fleet, and indeed are doing the right thing by replacing the old BR interiors with their own. They may wish to add to their fleet but there probably isn't the network capacity to do this thanks to Beardie's voyagers. I would also think that Eurostars are probably long out of construction and they are also only passed for 100mph running on the ECML at present.

GNER's trains are not older than most Intercity trains they are younger! The oldest stock they have is the 1978 HSTs and they are looking great with their refurbishment, and can keep going fairly reliably for a few years yet. The bulk of thier fleet are the 225s which were built around 1990ish - the Mk4s are due to be refurbished internally over the next year or so. Only being 12 years old until recently they were positively the new boys in UK IC rail! There isn't any reason to replace the 225s as they do exactly what they are needed to do, and infact have never been used to their design specification! Despite having a few glitches here and there are are also probably more reliable than Voyagers (don't even have to mention 180s!). The Eurostars are obviously younger still and fine for thier purpose.

So GNER have relatively little to worry about when it comes to train ages - their HSTs are younger than FGWs (assuming none were transferred etc.), and the 225s are doing fine, younger than Anglia's 35 year old Class 86s (aren't they still using Mk1 buffets too?), and Virgin's Class 87s. Plus Chris Garnett is said to dislike Voyagers - so I don't think he will be sprinterising GNER!

[nigelgresley]

Well said Kevin - if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I'd rather go on and HST (20+years old) or class 91 + mk4's (10years) rather than a cramped voyager (few months old?) anyday. If being packed in like sardines into a can is the future for rail travel, then you can keep it.

'Here endeth the rant'

[johndibben]

For what its worth I reckon slow and steady improvement as demonstrated by GNER and Chiltern Railways will win the day over the 'buy new and PR' approach.

Slowly, slowly, catchee, monkey

[basildd]

To correct the statement above, the 'White Rose' sets leased from Eurostar for GNER services have actually been running at 110mph since the service started and are now running at 125mph in various places. It is the infrastrucure rather than the train which prevents higher speeds by either the Class 373/3 or 91 fleets...

[salopiangrowler]

I voted eurostar but really think that GNER already have what they need really. I mean they already have 4 eurostar's 31 91's 33 full mk4 rakes and loads of HST's so why not do summer saturday relief's or holiday maker trains using good old loco hauled services using deltic's, 37's, 47's or 50's, Just look at the revenue. Money comes out of running alot of old traction, look at virgin when there trains break down or when they put D9000 on a train, word gets round and Virgin are in pocket. I know locohauled services dont do 125 - 140 mph but sod the speed and think of the profit.

[Goingnorth]

To correct the statement above, the 'White Rose' sets leased from Eurostar for GNER services have actually been running at 110mph since the service started and are now running at 125mph in various places. It is the infrastrucure rather than the train which prevents higher speeds by either the Class 373/3 or 91 fleets...

Correct...Overhead line Power problems in the main...110 mph south of Grantham only though. I must admit when I rode one (an Eurostar *ahem*) from York to London is was a bit...erm...slow!

[Goingnorth]

I voted eurostar but really think that GNER already have what they need really. I mean they already have 4 eurostar's 31 91's 33 full mk4 rakes and loads of HST's so why not do summer saturday relief's or holiday maker trains using good old loco hauled services using deltic's, 37's, 47's or 50's, Just look at the revenue. Money comes out of running alot of old traction, look at virgin when there trains break down or when they put D9000 on a train, word gets round and Virgin are in pocket. I know locohauled services dont do 125 - 140 mph but sod the speed and think of the profit.

If you ran slower services you wouldn't be able to run the rest of the service! The ECML runs to peak capacity most of the time.

GNER WERE going to order brand new trains but the SRA stopped that by not granting a franchise extention.

However...

1. The are working with other TOCs on an HST 2 concept which they need to replace the HSTs.

2. The are refurbishing the IC225s. This are a relatively new train..with at least 15-20 years of life left in them, so I don't think they will be replaced for some time. On top of that the 91s are one of most powerful locos running about today and the trains are all still is very good nic. The relability problems have been mostly ironed out now.

GNER were planning titling trains and Virgin (when they were putting together a bid) were on about building a brand new LGV.

The Eurostars are FAR too expensive and not really very suitable for the ECML. Certainly no more are going to be built. No point running DMUs on an electrified line so I discount the other suggestions. IF/When the franchise is settled then we might see some sort of new 'proper' IC train.
I think with the new interest in LGVs then I guess many things have been put on hold until everything can be worked out.

[n863dwt]

look im not saying that they NEED to replace/renew their fleet but as i read on some website (name escapes me..!) that gner is running with NO back up all trains are being used which means that (also as i remember) if on the saturday that the Eurostars are being serviced if a service braks down they can not continue the service as they have no back up/ spare/extra stock to pull it with and in this case if i remember the agreement i last read gner can NOT use the eurostars for Scotish route...!

[Goingnorth]

look im not saying that they NEED to replace/renew their fleet but as i read on some website (name escapes me..!) that gner is running with NO back up all trains are being used which means that (also as i remember) if on the saturday that the Eurostars are being serviced if a service braks down they can not continue the service as they have no back up/ spare/extra stock to pull it with and in this case if i remember the agreement i last read gner can NOT use the eurostars for Scotish route...!

Yeah the Eurostars are not cleared for North of York due to power supply problems.

TOCs don't carry spare stock much these days, if any, simply because at a £1million plus per VEHICLE trains costs far to much to have sitting around in sidings not in use. In BR days it might have happened (at least pre sectoristation) but today - no chance!

That's what happens when you get accountants running the show - very little, to no slack in the system. Sorry for such a negative answer - in fact an answer I would not like myself, but its a sad fact of life these days.

[AlanP46]

Hopefully GNER will by trains and not carts; thats all i can say.

Alan

[Goingnorth]

Hopefully GNER will by trains and not carts; thats all i can say.

Alan

Well they have a good chap in charge with plenty of sense so I'm sure they will see us proud.

Does anyone remember the GNER prototype electro diesel in Rail some time ago?

[n863dwt]

yeah but every other company has extra stock....i mean virgin has the 57's as extras

[Goingnorth]

yeah but every other company has extra stock....i mean virgin has the 57's as extras

They are rescue locos. GNER has those too.

Don't forget GNER lost 2 trainsets and is running quite a few more trains than British Snail.