Channel Tunnel Rail Link

[qzdcg8]

Been to Paris over the weekend and noticed that the gantries on the (nearly finished???) Channel Tunnel Rail Link are EXACTLY the same as the ones on the French side (on the bit down the side of the A1) - is this an example of French Engineering sneaking onto our shores? Also does anyone know how long it'll before this is finished?

[bjdick]

Typical English xenophobia.As an engineer I'd hazard the guess that since the gantries are handling the same trains,cables,wind speeds etc,they would turn out to be identical in design terms,and therefore look identical.

Economy of scale would make it sensible,and cheaper too,to opt for the French proven design,rather than an unproven,at the speeds envisaged,English one.

Judging from the snails pace of the project anyway,gantries are the least of the problems to be considered.

[basildd]

Snails pace of the project? A very uninformed view. The work is going according to plan as far as construction is concerned! I cannot make any other comments on it as I am involved with it but I am sure the information you require is available on the internet...

[Tepic]

They seem to be progressing on the north side of the Thames quite quickly.

Everytime I pass I see something new, it's a real eye opener just seeing what makes up a stable track bed!

[qzdcg8]

Typical English xenophobia

Thank you for your informative response!!! It was merely an observation of something which surprised me, nothing else - besides which, it's impressive whilst motoring on the A1 to see a TGV whizz past at a ridiculous speed!!!!

[Goingnorth]

Been to Paris over the weekend and noticed that the gantries on the (nearly finished???) Channel Tunnel Rail Link are EXACTLY the same as the ones on the French side (on the bit down the side of the A1) - is this an example of French Engineering sneaking onto our shores? Also does anyone know how long it'll before this is finished?

Yes everything is of French design:

Track, Signalling (TVM 430 I think), overheads the lot.

Which, when you think about it is very sensible. Simply because they have 20 years of experience of building LGVs.

Many of the European lines follow French standards, with the exception of the Germans to an extent.

It's far better to buy 'off the shelf' with this sort of stuff. The manufacturers (Alstom, GEC, Westinghouse, Alcatel and so on) are world class companies. There is no such thing as 'British standards' in a world economy. Engineering (Civil, Electrical and so on) share similar methods and standards throughout the world...so you get what works best.

It's a shame that the WCML didn't have a parallel LGV constructed nearby, instead of the £10-13bn shambles. BR put this at a cost of £2bn!

If we'd have gone for 'off the shelf' kit we'd have had a brand new line built at maybe less cost. The Channel tunnel rail link is built through some of the most expensive and difficult terrain in the UK and it is costing FAR less that the WCML...and it is built for freight!

The first part of the line is due to open in less than a year. Construction on the second part has already begun. Mostly 100/125mph tunnels right into central London - due to be completed by 2007.

The CTRL is the most exciting rail project in the UK for a very long time, maybe 100 years. The last significant rail project was ECML in the late 1980s. Before that maybe the construction of the Selby diversion in 1981/2. Before that the WCML electrification in the 1970s and 1960s!

Thank God our European cousins are 20 years ahead of us and can lend a hand and keep costs low.

http://www.ctrl.co.uk

[Kevo00]

Too right, the Selby diversion was hardly earth shattering.

Lets hope it lives up to the promise, unlike the ECML electrification for example.

[micksasse]

Do you think if we ask really nicely the French might come and build some more railways lines for us?

[Goingnorth]

Do you think if we ask really nicely the French might come and build some more railways lines for us?

Well they did all the electrification for Heathrow express.

You never know.

[qzdcg8]

Been to Paris over the weekend and noticed that the gantries on the (nearly finished???) Channel Tunnel Rail Link are EXACTLY the same as the ones on the French side (on the bit down the side of the A1) - is this an example of French Engineering sneaking onto our shores? Also does anyone know how long it'll before this is finished?

Yes everything is of French design:

Track, Signalling (TVM 430 I think), overheads the lot.

Which, when you think about it is very sensible. Simply because they have 20 years of experience of building LGVs.

Many of the European lines follow French standards, with the exception of the Germans to an extent.

It's far better to buy 'off the shelf' with this sort of stuff. The manufacturers (Alstom, GEC, Westinghouse, Alcatel and so on) are world class companies. There is no such thing as 'British standards' in a world economy. Engineering (Civil, Electrical and so on) share similar methods and standards throughout the world...so you get what works best.

It's a shame that the WCML didn't have a parallel LGV constructed nearby, instead of the £10-13bn shambles. BR put this at a cost of £2bn!

If we'd have gone for 'off the shelf' kit we'd have had a brand new line built at maybe less cost. The Channel tunnel rail link is built through some of the most expensive and difficult terrain in the UK and it is costing FAR less that the WCML...and it is built for freight!

The first part of the line is due to open in less than a year. Construction on the second part has already begun. Mostly 100/125mph tunnels right into central London - due to be completed by 2007.

The CTRL is the most exciting rail project in the UK for a very long time, maybe 100 years. The last significant rail project was ECML in the late 1980s. Before that maybe the construction of the Selby diversion in 1981/2. Before that the WCML electrification in the 1970s and 1960s!

Thank God our European cousins are 20 years ahead of us and can lend a hand and keep costs low.

http://www.ctrl.co.uk

Thanks for the information Rob!

[yourdomingo]

do french trains drive on the right, or is that just american?

and incidentally, what does the future hold for waterloo international? are they still gonna send eurostars there, or will everything go to st pancras?

[duncharris]

What about trains?
It is the signaling equipment that determines whether a double track railway goes on the left or on the right. Many modern main-line railways are equipped to allow traffic at full speed in either direction on either track, and in some cases it is normal to use both tracks for trains in the same direction simultaneously. On tracks with older signaling equipment, as well as on lines with heavy traffic such as metros and suburban traffic, each track is almost always used in one direction only. Most railway authorities then have a general rule. (Jens Brix Christiansen)

Here are the rules for a few countries: Left: Australia, Belgium, Denmark, France, Hong Kong, India, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Portugal, Sweden, Switzerland, Taiwan, UK.
Right: Canada, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Hungary, Netherlands, Norway, Romania, Russia, Sweden, USA.


It is of course important that road traffic be consistently on the same side of the road. Since railways are highly controlled and don't always interconnect, there are some exceptions to the general rule of train operation.

Most trains in the United Kingdom operate on the left, but there are a number of short sections on the London Underground where for one reason or another they operate on the right -- for example, the Northern Line at Bank Station. On the line from Glasgow to Fort William in Scotland, trains keep to the right at stations because the station platform is an island between two tracks, and the train operator, who sits on the left, can more easily view the platform. (Martin Rich) Why does the driver sit on the left? Two reasons: (1) to get a better view of trackside signals, and (2) to be able to stick his head out the window without it getting knocked off by a train on the other track. (Thomas Murphy)

In France (where cars keep to the right), trains run on the left as a legacy from the days when they were first constructed by English engineers with equipment imported from England. "When the Paris Métro was being built (the first line opened in 1900) there was some debate about the rule of the road. The city authorities were quite keen to maintain their autonomy from central government which had been suggesting the metro should be built to allow troop movements within the city in the event of civil commotion. The first lines were only a short way below the surface and along the lines of streets so it was logical to have right hand running." (Notre Métro by Dr. J. Robert, reported by Norman Bartlett) One line of the RER commuter system also runs on the right, because it is run by the city transit system, RATP, rather than the national railway, SNCF. French railways in Alsace-Lorraine run on the right, as it wasn't worthwhile converting them when the territory was returned to France. (Mark Brader)

In Korea, trains drive on the left, presumably because the railroad system was built by the Japanese (who drive on the left) when Korea was a Japanese colony. The Seoul subway, on the other hand, was constructed beginning in the 1980s with French aid; by that time, Korean and French drivers were both driving on the right, so the subway does too, except for one line which connects directly to the National Railway, and which therefore must be on the left. "It can be confusing when deciding which side of a concourse to board a train," says Douglas Clark.

In Russia, most trains run on the right, except for the line between Moscow and Ryazan, which was designed and built by British engineers. (Sergey Fedosov)

In Taiwan, trains drive on the left because the railroads were mostly built during the period of Japanese rule -- and the Japanese drive on the left. Taiwan has since changed to driving on the right but the old trains remain on the left. The new Taipei Rapid Transit System, built in the 1990s with French aid, keeps to the right. (Justin Jih)

In the USA and Canada, trains keep to the right, with one exception: the Chicago and Northwestern Railroad. The line's construction was financed by British capital, which may have influenced the track plans. It may also be that the stations were arbitrarily placed all on one side of the tracks when the line was single-track, and when the second track was added it was impractical to change all the station alignments so the outbound track ended up on the left. (Don Howard, Eric Zimmerman)


Rui Gustavo Crespo notes that where neighboring countries run their trains on opposite sides of the track, trains must switch sides at the border. "In Netherlands trains run on the right, but in Belgium they move on the left. Last Sunday I travelled between the two countries. At Roosendal (a Dutch city close to the border), the train stopped at the railway station and had to wait for permission to move to the left track: from then, although we were still in Netherlands, our train was conducted on the left."

A tunnel and bridge (the Øresund link) connects Copenhagen, Denmark, where trains run on the right, and Malmö, Sweden, where they run on the left. The railway's signaling equipment allows full-speed traffic in either direction on both tracks, but it was decided that trains on the link would keep right, and Malmö Central Station is the cross-over point so that all traffic in Sweden south of Malmö Central now goes on the right. (Jens Brix Christiansen)

http://www.travel-library.com/general/d ... tml#trains

[salopiangrowler]

Test run from eurostar i believe is next year Ashford to dollands more

your spy cars a mini

[basildd]

do french trains drive on the right, or is that just american?

and incidentally, what does the future hold for waterloo international? are they still gonna send eurostars there, or will everything go to st pancras?

The answer to this is in another current thread!

[basildd]

Test run from eurostar i believe is next year Ashford to dollands more

your spy cars a mini

There will be extensive testing from early 2003 and not just from Ashford. The test trains will also break the British speed record as they will run at line speed plus 12% to test the lines / equipment (breaching 200mph!)...