Using the Bin patch?

[Iluka]

Hi Jon

Are you 100% sure about you advice re anyone purchasing MSTS since 2003/2004 has a later version that is required by MSTSBin.

MSTS1.4 is required and I installed MSTS with it already on the CD and I had absolutely no problems installing MSTSBin.

I only had to use the MS Patch to stop me having to put the CD in my drive everytime I ran MSTS

I have another exact copy still in it's original wrapped box (I have never had to use it as I have never had to re-install MSTS ) and on the Box is "Microsoft Train Simulator - Now with 2 new locomotives,7 new rolling stock and more!"

Regards

Mike

[jbilton]

Hi Mike
No not 100% sure........ my copy was bought for me by my son in April 2003 from PC World, a major UK High St retail chain.
At that time it was still a stocked, and promoted CD, and cost £24.99.
It came complete with the Class 50 and upgraded tools etc.
As such my 'Trainsim.exe' had to be 'downgraded' before I could install Bin patch.
However it is quite possible this was a UK only produced CD.
So CDs around the world could be different, this is a good point though, and possibly makes UKTS international support more difficult.
I've since obtained a version with the GP38 on the box, and the latest Explosiv version.......neither installed to-date though.
Obviously the easiest way to test, is to try to install the Bin patch, if it won't then you need the earlier version.
The other way is to look at the actual size of the train.exe file, the latest version is around 4.5Mb.
Finally the last test is if trainsim crashes, it does not try to phone Bill,and it doesn't write the diax txt file.
It just closes and goes to desktop.
Cheers
Jon

[richard222]

Does installing BIN patch actually affect the Warranty of MSTS? I assume add-ons don't, but i assume MSTS-BIN will affect this.

Investigation says that MSTS is an XPLOSIV title, available
http://www.xplosiv.net/default.aspx?MID ... ID=&S=&P=2

and that Xplosiv is a brand of Empire Interactive, but as far as i can tell they wish to distance from them.

I dont have a clue about the warranty but i guess a commercial product is licensed, so doesn't, but what about BIN?

If BIN affects the warranty, is it fair for a paid product to force someone to do this to their computer?

[alanch]

What warranty - I doubt if anyone one would recompense you for anything that happened through installing MSTS, and certainly not Microsoft.

And no-one is forcing anyone to install Bin - if you don't want to use it don't - though why anyone wouldn't install Bin is beyond me.

[lateagain]

Does installing BIN patch actually affect the Warranty of MSTS? I assume add-ons don't, but i assume MSTS-BIN will affect this.

Investigation says that MSTS is an XPLOSIV title, available
http://www.xplosiv.net/default.aspx?MID ... ID=&S=&P=2

and that Xplosiv is a brand of Empire Interactive, but as far as i can tell they wish to distance from them.

I dont have a clue about the warranty but i guess a commercial product is licensed, so doesn't, but what about BIN?

If BIN affects the warranty, is it fair for a paid product to force someone to do this to their computer?

Hi Richard,

Thanks for that link that is extremely helpful as it has the address and contact details of Empires registered office in the UK. Don't know where tou get the idea that Empire want to distance themselves from the brand. They proudly archive and display everyone of their press releases including a glowing one singing the praises of MSTS and quoting from some (doubtless contemporary with it's original release) independant reviews of the product. ...these might give the average forum member a good laugh?

However now we know who seems to be the current license holder I'd suggest that it would be a good idea if UKTS included it on the CD ordering page? It wasn't there when I checked earlier? Even at list price it beats Amazon if you include a premium membership. The fact that UKTS does that OUGHT to impress the pants of any marketing manager?

There are other considerations that need looking at first before issues with BIN are addressed as I've outlined above.

As for warranties? I'm not sure I understand your point Richard. IMHO I never had a warranty worth the paper it was written on.... but then I am a cynical sort, in case that doesn't come across

However I am interested in a clarification of your concern.

In the meantime the MEP team are looking at ways of implimenting MEP as a mini route. London and Port Stanley has used a simple device to stay within the terms of MSTS's EULA and if that can be applied to MEP it could be a stand alone route. This is worth looking into as it may solve a lot of conflicts but we're also testing out some of the steam concerns with BIN already as these seem to be the most concrete of complaints at the moment.

We have ALWAYS been concerned about issues with BIN and that is why the route did not start out as a BIN route. We haven't adopted it lightly. We have tested with various members of the team using different variations of the patch. We can't do much more than that. It's Mick's route but he listens to all team members input and we have frequent discussions about any issues that arise with the route. One of the reasons it's been so long in development is because nothing thats been thrown up as a problem has been bypassed. It's been fixed and the fix implimented. This has caused the activity writers a lot of extra work and they've stuck to it because they know that the effort is worth it and the fixes will work.

ATM most of the team are using either the last "stable" version of BIN or the very latest. Frankly the latest seems "stable" to most of us but that isn't to say that there are not a few MINOR issues to be fixed. Also lets remember that in a route as large and complex as MEP there are going to be minor things that don't work because of problems with the original programme. Just because something doesn't work doesn't mean that the fault lies with the BIN patch. It's excellent but it hasn't put right all that's wrong with MSTS and equally the fact that it hasn't isn't a very intelligent reason for not installing it for all the things it has fixed.

Geoff

[jbilton]

Hi Geoff
That sounds like an excellent idea............and I think would be very,very popular.
It would also solve a lot of technical problems, and would make it possible for a wide audience to enjoy.
I'm a big fan of the mini-route, and once people get their heads round it, its the simplest way IMO.
I have about 20 different mini folders personally.
Including the L&PS, a Russian subway, and an Italian route which all require their own special Tsections etc.
I also have TM V4 and Dorset coast in their own mini-routes, purely for size.
Cheers
Jon

[richard222]

All i mean by warranty is that if the BIN patch is installed, does it invalidate you from tech support for free basically!

[Lad491]

All i mean by warranty is that if the BIN patch is installed, does it invalidate you from tech support for free basically!

It probably does, but you arent likely to get much in the way of technical support from Microsoft or whoever now owns it, for the original product. You are more likely to get more technical support here than anywhere else. TS.com perhaps excepted.

[richard222]

I agree Laurie, Microsoft should pay UKTS members to be tech support - bet we know far more than those who made it.

My worry is that I was, at first sceptical of some of the stuff i was told on here, if microsoft tell you something wrong and it ruins your pc/msts, you have grounds to complain, but if someone on here (doesn't happen often) tells you something that mucks up your msts, it may cause problems.


Richard

[lateagain]

Richard

Are you talking about technical support on your PC? Is that what you mean by warranty?

If so what make is your computer and where does the technical support come from?

I know that certain major suppliers offer such home support packages. If so you will have to read the conditions of your warranty. If you buy a computer it is perfectly reasonable that you should install software on it other than the basic software the computer comes with. Any warranty that excludes this activity is frankly a joke and not worth the paper it's written on.

As far as BIN is concerned.

Have you got an error free installation of MSTS that's working happily at the moment?

Have you any additional routes installed and if so are these running with out any problems?

If the answer to either of the above is yes but I have a problem. Sort that out first. It's unlikely that BIN would change thes problems one way or another but it just might. Then you've three pieces of software on your machine not working because of errors

A golden rule is install NOTHING NEW if you are having problems. Sort them out first.

IF you have MSTS and some additional toutes and NO problems or errors. Then provided you download the patch and read the instructions .....and the read the instructions again .....and the follow them to the letter you should find you have no noticeable difference in MSTS UNTIL you actually run it. Then all the new features will be there.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT .....UNINSTALL IT ....don't start fiddling around in the programme or deleteing stuff or changing stuff.

IF YOU UNINSTALL IT READ THE INSTRUCTIONS AND UNINSTALL IT EXACTLY ....THATS EXACTLY as they tell you. Don't do it your way, don't do it the way your know it all mate tells you to do it DO IT THE WAY THE INSTRUCTIONS IN THE BIN PATCH tell you to do it.

I've finished shouting now ....but I did it for a purpose. There's always some "expert" looking over your shoulder who say's "oh you don't want to do that" so in this case tell them to "shut the blazes up" and do it the way George tells you to do it.

People here have been installing and uninstalling versions to test things and as they've pointed out it's quick and painless provided you follow the instructions. IF in doubt go to the BIN forum and read up previous queries or post your detailed problem there. Chances are once you see what improvements it brings you'll leave it where it is and like many of us accept that as the new MSTS.

Geoff