Using the Bin patch?

[buffy500]

Personally, I do find the figures suprising.

I don't doubt the % of internet connected homes, what I am suprised at, is how many people, without internet appear to be ordering CD's from UKTS (a website, by which infers an organisation mostly only known about by people with internet access)
It must be a hell of a take up form the shows if 50% of orders come by post from non members.

[leviathan1949]

I don't doubt the % of internet connected homes, what I am suprised at, is how many people, without internet appear to be ordering CD's from UKTS (a website, by which infers an organisation mostly only known about by people with internet access)
It must be a hell of a take up form the shows if 50% of orders come by post from non members.

To repeat my statement, fifty percent of the community of UKTS DO NOT have internet, or don't want it, or have no desire to download etc etc. The product has to work out of the box as it were.

It is the

have no desire to download

that make up the bulk of the "Silent Simmers".

[Lad491]

My comment about MEP and the Bin patch seems to have got lost when the threads were split, so i'll repeat it again. Although we are recommending that people have the Bin patch installed to run MEP, I dont consider it a necessity. Advisable yes, but not a necessity.

Although I have it installed on my PC, I have done so purely for the memory management enhancements it brings and I havent used any of its advanced features in any of my activities, no cab swapping etc. Im fairly confident that all of my activities will run on a non bin machine, although I cant comment for the other activity writers.

MEP, even with Bin, is pretty resource intensive and already some areas have a lot of stutter, so Geoffs point is valid in that without it you will have to turn settings down a fair way and will lose some of the impressive detail, but i believe it will still run without it.

So recommended yes, but required I dont think so

[dorlan]

I don't doubt the % of internet connected homes, what I am suprised at, is how many people, without internet appear to be ordering CD's from UKTS (a website, by which infers an organisation mostly only known about by people with internet access)
It must be a hell of a take up form the shows if 50% of orders come by post from non members.

To repeat my statement, fifty percent of the community of UKTS DO NOT have internet, or don't want it, or have no desire to download etc etc. The product has to work out of the box as it were.

It is the

have no desire to download

that make up the bulk of the "Silent Simmers".

Some more statistics to consider, admittedly it's from a small sample of 20, but ...
60% of the latest CD orders notified to UKTrainsim Support are from members who have never posted on the forums, in fact only two are registered.
Of the 40% who have posted, the majority are newish members with less than 10 posts!

[Tonysmedley]

Most of what is relevant has already been said on this thread, but as possibly the oldest and the least competent poster I find that using 'bin' is easy and makes it possible to run routes that always caused problems previously. If any of those reading this do the same then my intervention is worth while. I personally like routes with a lot of background detail, to me the scenery is almost as important as the track, and so bin is an essential alternative to turning down settings. but I think that it should be easy and is desirable to head an activity description, as has been suggested, with "requires Bin" if that is the case. And I like "installers" - they save me having to think too much

[Lad491]

My comment about MEP and the Bin patch seems to have got lost when the threads were split, so i'll repeat it again. Although we are recommending that people have the Bin patch installed to run MEP, I dont consider it a necessity. Advisable yes, but not a necessity.

Although I have it installed on my PC, I have done so purely for the memory management enhancements it brings and I havent used any of its advanced features in any of my activities, no cab swapping etc. Im fairly confident that all of my activities will run on a non bin machine, although I cant comment for the other activity writers.

MEP, even with Bin, is pretty resource intensive and already some areas have a lot of stutter, so Geoffs point is valid in that without it you will have to turn settings down a fair way and will lose some of the impressive detail, but i believe it will still run without it.

So recommended yes, but required I dont think so

I need to modify what i said in this post as the decision has now been taken that you MUST have the Bin patch installed to run MEP. This is to do with modifications to the eng files of the locomotive lights setup which will only work with Bin installed. So my comment above was incorrect.

You will now need to have Bin installed in order to install and run MEP. It wont work without it. I hope that clears up any misunderstanding caused largely by me

[richard222]

For me, downloaded packs can use BIN as anyone who downloads a pack can download bin

But i think CDs should have BIN as an optional extra.


Richard

[dipper6]

Most of what is relevant has already been said on this thread, but as possibly the oldest and the least competent poster I find that using 'bin' is easy and makes it possible to run routes that always caused problems previously. If any of those reading this do the same then my intervention is worth while. I personally like routes with a lot of background detail, to me the scenery is almost as important as the track, and so bin is an essential alternative to turning down settings. but I think that it should be easy and is desirable to head an activity description, as has been suggested, with "requires Bin" if that is the case. And I like "installers" - they save me having to think too much

I am as old as you are Tony and I agree 100% with you.
I only get routes or anything on CD, however, if something is complete and only for download that is OK.

[jbilton]

Hi
I think the difference here is that with TM v4 the activities only required the Bin patch for the extra memory function.
Where as I believe the stock on MEP, as Laurie has confirmed, will be Bin compliant only.
Therefore the separation of bin and non bin activities would be futile, unless someone is willing to do a lot of stock swapping.
I believe the route will have to be on DVD format, as it is already large.
So is there possibly room to include non bin stock ?

I'm not sure that Ian's recent statistics show much apart from, those that don't download routes and stock, obviously buy Cd's from UKTS.
I don't think that necessarily proves why they don't wish to download.
However it could also be viewed that as the majority of the community already have all the routes on UKTS Cd's , they wouldn't be re-ordering them ?
Something that is slightly more worrying for me is, unfortunately these 'silent members' then don't go on to take an active part in the community, at any level.
Which is I believe, why we should really be here, and what has driven the hobby forward in the early years.

Cheers
Jon

[LNERandBR]

My comment about MEP and the Bin patch seems to have got lost when the threads were split, so i'll repeat it again. Although we are recommending that people have the Bin patch installed to run MEP, I dont consider it a necessity. Advisable yes, but not a necessity.

Although I have it installed on my PC, I have done so purely for the memory management enhancements it brings and I havent used any of its advanced features in any of my activities, no cab swapping etc. Im fairly confident that all of my activities will run on a non bin machine, although I cant comment for the other activity writers.

MEP, even with Bin, is pretty resource intensive and already some areas have a lot of stutter, so Geoffs point is valid in that without it you will have to turn settings down a fair way and will lose some of the impressive detail, but i believe it will still run without it.

So recommended yes, but required I dont think so

I need to modify what i said in this post as the decision has now been taken that you MUST have the Bin patch installed to run MEP. This is to do with modifications to the eng files of the locomotive lights setup which will only work with Bin installed. So my comment above was incorrect.

You will now need to have Bin installed in order to install and run MEP. It wont work without it. I hope that clears up any misunderstanding caused largely by me

For me, downloaded packs can use BIN as anyone who downloads a pack can download bin

But i think CDs should have BIN as an optional extra.


Richard

This is true but there has been alot of work put into MEP in the form of senery detail which makes it pratically impossible to drive without BIN even with settings turned down. Even with BIN there are areas where you will get stuttering.

To make MEP a non BIN route now will require alot of work which will undo alot of work allready put into it. As a result it would push back the release date of the route.

Overall it is Mick's route and he has recently stated that it is BIN only therefore it will be the first and proberbly last route to be released that will require BIN to be installed.

As for including Non BIN stock. I think this is unlikely. Mick and Geoff have recelty put in alot of time and effort to get the stock list sorted and currently only have the freight stock left to do. Therefore they will be reluctent to go back to the stock they have done. Perticually as Mick want's to get back to scenery as there are still many parts of the route without any.

[richard222]

OK.

Fair play I guess.



With the BIN patch, any ideas what George would say if an update manager ala UKFS Track Manager could be developed, seems to clear his reason, but it is his decision at the end of the day.


Richard

[leviathan1949]

Pete

So, just to clarify things on my end, its advisable when making activities to separate the MSTSBIN ones from the non MSTS BIN ones?

David, Models and Activities need to be identified in some way if they are affected by MSTSBIN.
Activities that ONLY run with MSTSBIN installed should be clearly marked as such.

Models that ONLY work when MSTSBIN is installed should be clearly marked as such.
I understand from a post made by LAD491 that the majority of diesels in MEP will ONLY work with MSTSBIN installed because of the lighting configurations.

Models that work in MSTS, but are MSTSBIN compliant (cab swap etc) should again be marked as such.

In an ideal world the marking would appear in the description field on the download screen as there is nothing more frustrating than downloading something only to find you can't use it.

[LNERandBR]

the majority of diesels in MEP will ONLY work with MSTSBIN installed because of the lighting configurations.

Unfotunatly It's not the majority but all of the loco's to be inlcuded in MEP will only function with MSTSBIN installed.

In addidtion it is highly unlikely that the route itsef will function without it.

[jbilton]

Hi
There seems to me, many and slightly separate issues here........ and at the end of the day its all personal choices.
However I'm not sure any MSTS route should need Bin Patch to run, unless its to get round the white void, or increase the number of signal lights on one tile etc.
The clever skill of MSTS route making, IMO, is realism but with optimisation.
To date, arguably, one of the most highly detailed and accurately built routes is MTs Great Eastern.
In early development stage this ran like a pig in some areas, but with skillful changes it now runs fine on most PCs.
As previously posted, there is a huge amount of data space available on a DVD, so it would be possible to include the original non bin versions of the stock.
Whether Bin written activities can be 'downgraded' to non bin is another matter, and definitely down to the activity writers.
Something that was again done for the Great Eastern.
Finally I had earlier suggested (I think it got lost in the thread split) that its quite possible for a link to be included on the DVD which would download and install the Bin patch with a couple of clicks.
This gets round the computer inept users, but obviously not for those that don't physically have an internet connection.
As I say its personal choices and just suggestions, which don't effect me personally........as I have Bin installed and a fast 20Mb broadband connection.
The deciding factor here for me is whether the route and stock becomes downloadable........and what of my current MSTS I would have to delete to make room for it.
Cheers
Jon

[LNERandBR]

However I'm not sure any MSTS route should need Bin Patch to run, unless its to get round the white void, or increase the number of signal lights on one tile etc.

I beleve that this is required at Doncaster as without BIN non of the Signals there work. BIN solves the issue.

As for the stock. Alot of work has been done on it to make it BIN compatable which will require alot of work to undo. This would push back the release of the route and as the route istelf will not function without BIN we will not be including non BIN stock on the disk.

This isn't an issue of space on the disk it's an issue regarding the amout of work that has been done on the stock to improve it to a state that it is some of the best stock avalable. This work has been done by only a few memebers of the MEP team and as they currently have only the freight stock left to do. They will be reluctent to go back over stock to make it non-BIN compatable when the route will not function without BIN.