Train driver anyone?

Goingnorth · Post by **Goingnorth** » Sun Sep 08, 2002 9:05 pm

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 97,00.html

Just wondered if anyone had considered becoming a train driver, especially now that the pay is way above most graduate salaries...

Must admit I'm sort of tempted, bit concerned about getting bored though.

markw · Post by **markw** » Sun Sep 08, 2002 11:02 pm

Trust the Times to induldge in a bit of Union bashing whilst making it an "aren't our teachers and nurses underpaid?" story.

I've worked in Local Government until stress induced illness made me retire. It's . pay for most Council officers, and meaningless Government targets and moronic can't do anything for themselves people shouting and swearing because there aren't enough people to do the job they want doing, mean the number of people taking early retirement through stress induced illness is growing exponentially. That's without the violence that's meted out to Environmental Health, Social Services, Planning Enforcement and Housing Benefit staff amongst others.

However, I would not think about driving a train full time even if I was able to, simply because of the stress of shift working, risk of vandalism and trespass, and the fact that every train driver is supposed to experience at least one fatality in their working life.

But of course, that wouldn't fit the Times' slant on things, would it?

Kevo00 · Post by **Kevo00** » Mon Sep 09, 2002 12:04 am

Funnily enough as a History student who will soon be starting the 4th year of a 4 year MA course I have been giving it some thought now that it apparently pays so well. I was on a footplate awareness course thingy at the NYMR on Thursday (a birthday present - I'm driving in my avatar!) and realised train driving wasn't potentially as bad a job as people make out.

The worst part of it all was shovelling the coal back out of the firebox at the end - shovelling coal in was difficult manual labour but not bad - and climbing up inside the engine to oil all the moving parts wasn't as hard as I expected either. Same with climbing up to put water in. As for the actual driving well it was good, and I could get better with practice - having practice in MSTS (unrealistic as it is) had helped me and I'm a better MSTS driver now thanks to my expirience. I got to drive up and down at Grosmont a fair amount then got to take the engine up to Goathland and back - so addmittedly I didn't have time to get bored!

Considering that it didn't seem too bad a job and that on modern trains most of the hard manual bits are gone, as well as the apprenticeship now being virtually non - existent the idea of getting a job as a driver does seem quite appealing, although not sure what the prospects are as a long term career these days.

yourdomingo · Post by **yourdomingo** » Mon Sep 09, 2002 7:14 am

well i am planning on becoming a train driver. unfortunately i have already failed the initial test (%$&$*), but one day i'll do it!

and i have just got me a 1st class physics degree.

I really should make something of myself!

nigelgresley · Post by **nigelgresley** » Mon Sep 09, 2002 8:52 am

On the subject of becoming a train driver, did anyone see the article in RAIL about it? Also, I am always rather suspect of people going into uch a job just for the pay, I believe that you should actually want to be a train driver, then you will be able to give the job the commitment it needs. e.g. not taking too many days off sick etc.

*steps down from soapbox*

johndibben · Post by **johndibben** » Mon Sep 09, 2002 9:43 am

markw wrote:I've worked in Local Government until stress induced illness made me retire. It's . pay for most Council officers, and meaningless Government targets and moronic can't do anything for themselves people shouting and swearing because there aren't enough people to do the job they want doing, mean the number of people taking early retirement through stress induced illness is growing exponentially. That's without the violence that's meted out to Environmental Health, Social Services, Planning Enforcement and Housing Benefit staff amongst others.

I can understand those sentiments only too well

Kevo00 · Post by **Kevo00** » Mon Sep 09, 2002 11:23 am

nigelgresley wrote:On the subject of becoming a train driver, did anyone see the article in RAIL about it? Also, I am always rather suspect of people going into uch a job just for the pay, I believe that you should actually want to be a train driver, then you will be able to give the job the commitment it needs. e.g. not taking too many days off sick etc.

*steps down from soapbox*

A very good point, although I suspect most people do jobs like insurance for the pay! I would far rather be a train driver than do an office job - its the one job I've always wanted to do, but I was always put off by the low pay.

But if I can get high pay and do a job I like its a bonus, so it is tempting to apply for it rather than take the other path that appeals to me - do a postgrad course and eventually become a pro historian. Besides if I were to become a train driver and didn't like the job I could always leave with some cash in my pocket and then do a postgrad course. I imagine I would have a better sense of duty to the railways than most of those working there now though.

Goingnorth · Post by **Goingnorth** » Mon Sep 09, 2002 11:26 am

nigelgresley wrote:On the subject of becoming a train driver, did anyone see the article in RAIL about it? Also, I am always rather suspect of people going into uch a job just for the pay, I believe that you should actually want to be a train driver, then you will be able to give the job the commitment it needs. e.g. not taking too many days off sick etc.

*steps down from soapbox*

Totally agree. Most railway work is a 'way of life' and not just a turn up when you feel like it. And this is at all times of the day and night. It's also very disciplined and you need to keep on top of rule changes and general changes in industry practices. BTW rules change every few months and there is a complete rule book change every few years or so. There is a lot and to be honest most are as dull as it gets.

Yep, you can't suddenly phone in sick or not turn up. Else the train will get cancelled most probably. With signalling it's even worse with a box or workstation shutting which can cause massive disruption or complete line closure.

Goingnorth · Post by **Goingnorth** » Mon Sep 09, 2002 12:01 pm

markw wrote:Trust the Times to induldge in a bit of Union bashing whilst making it an "aren't our teachers and nurses underpaid?" story.

I've worked in Local Government until stress induced illness made me retire. It's . pay for most Council officers, and meaningless Government targets and moronic can't do anything for themselves people shouting and swearing because there aren't enough people to do the job they want doing, mean the number of people taking early retirement through stress induced illness is growing exponentially. That's without the violence that's meted out to Environmental Health, Social Services, Planning Enforcement and Housing Benefit staff amongst others.

However, I would not think about driving a train full time even if I was able to, simply because of the stress of shift working, risk of vandalism and trespass, and the fact that every train driver is supposed to experience at least one fatality in their working life.

But of course, that wouldn't fit the Times' slant on things, would it?

It's a funny word stress and I suppose each of us have different thresholds.

Can't say that working shifts is stressful, more like annoying as sometimes it impinges on the rest of your life.

Vandalism and trespass: Well if you hit the trespasser that falls into the fatality area: See below. As for Vandalism, there's plenty off it. More a problem I think is suburban passenger train driving, where the abuse some drivers get for 'running late' is amazing. It has to be seen to be believed. Never mind the poor guy had red and yellow signals all the way! But you can't expect some people to see that.

Yes! Be prepared to hit at least one person, maybe several. Everyone is different, some are very, very traumatised by it. Others it simply doesn't bother them. I remember dealing on the phone with a driver after he had hit someone running across the track in west London. It really didn't bother him at all (nor me I have to say). He just say 'Hello, just hit a guy running across the track and he's got caught between the train and the platform'. Is it bad, I said? (at this point and preparing to shut the line) Yeah, it's a bit of a mess. Basically he was shredded and the body parts were spread right over the side of the first coach of the unit, much to the joy of the passengers. So we organised to move the train on and detrain and that was it. But with some people they would freak. Truth is you can never tell until it happens...

BTW The railway chap that went out to clear up with the emergency services reckoned it stunk. After 3 days and 6 baths he still couldn't get rid of the smell - guy had been in the pub by all accounts.....just thought Iâ€™d share that with you!

bjdick · Post by **bjdick** » Mon Sep 09, 2002 12:21 pm

Nice story goingnorth,it reminds me of the time when the Captain of a ship died whilst at sea.
The Chief Officer upon being informed of the situation,and thus his rapid promotion,went to the cabin to see for himself.
His first words were reputed to be."Get that corpse out of my bunk."

markw · Post by **markw** » Mon Sep 09, 2002 1:11 pm

To be honest killing people wouldn't bother me too much as I take the view that it would be one less oxygen stealer to worry about, but I'd freak if I hit some poor defenceless animal - I'm completely soft like that.

The stress of shift work is more to do with the body clock being out of sync - although I would be good at a 3pm-3am shift permanently if such things exist.

Would have to be a nice uniform to tempt me, though....but we won't go there....

Goingnorth · Post by **Goingnorth** » Mon Sep 09, 2002 3:03 pm

Well I'm much the same Mark. I used to drive 40,000 miles a year in my car and I've only ever killed one animal - a rabbit. And I got pretty upset about that. Avoid harming living things at all costs that's me.

Tell you a story. A heavy oil train (class 60 on the front) hit a pony, not that the driver knew anything about it. This must have been at 4.30am one morning. It wasn't reported until around 6am by a Virgin trains driver. The report was the foal was still standing by it's mother (now dead), itself injuried. So the Vet was called and it wasn't until around midday that the body was taken away and the foal was put down...I'm afraid the died of shock of seeing it's mother crush beneath the train...it just stood motionless for hours. It upset quite a few people that attended the scene quite a bit - certainly far more that the average adult human trespasser.

So yes, it's children and some animals that seem to upset the most.

On a cab ride from Birmingham to Bournemouth on a 47 I I was amazed at how many pigeons were hit, maybe 5 or 10. They just seem oblivious to trains for some reason. Make a hell of a bang too when they hit the front, especially just below the windscreen.

(There's one for the Hazards people)

Fodda · Post by **Fodda** » Mon Sep 09, 2002 3:46 pm

I'm not that surprised by the number of birds hitting trains when you consider the frontal area of most engines, and the speed that they travel too.

bjdick · Post by **bjdick** » Mon Sep 09, 2002 3:49 pm

Interesting comment about stress.I think it's more related to the individual worker,their job,workmates,and management.
As to shift times,I don't think you can get more out of kilter with body clocks,as in a round the world seagoing service,where you have,on some vessels,a six hour on,six hour off,shift pattern,plus having to contend with an hour per day clock change backwards,or forwards to maintain local time.
It must be worse for airline staff,but then they must have rest breaks by law.Seafarers have no such luxury,it's a seven day week work pattern,plus you're living on top of your workplace 24Hrs a day,with the prospect of being called out,if all is not well,or you're transiting a canal,or entering\leaving port.
However the advantage is that you're in complete control of your workplace.Not much chance of management hassle in the middle of the Pacific is there?
Under maritime law,not even the shipowner can interfere with the running of a ship,once it has left port.Indeed he is liable to provide support,at the Masters discretion,for the safe operation of the ship.

NickCollier · Post by **NickCollier** » Mon Sep 09, 2002 3:53 pm

Walk through an 8 car cig or vep andd u look at the front of it well the now joined middle and the ammount of c#@p on the front is amazing.