General Questions on 'Kettles'

DescendingSadly · Post by **DescendingSadly** » Thu May 03, 2007 10:55 pm

No, not the home appliance, the beasts that ran on the metals 40 years ago!

I've recently got into driving steam trains on routes like the Withered Arm and Burton - Derby.

What are the cylinder cocks for? all that happens in MSTS is that steam comes out under the engine...

Why does the reverser go upto 75? does it affect speed?

Why do brakes have a 'running' option? which would you recommend?

Thanks!

choccy · Post by **choccy** » Fri May 04, 2007 1:09 am

There is a tutorial here which should help you with some of the questions.

http://www.uktrainsim.com/index2.php?fo ... teamfiring

Mark

jetgriff · Post by **jetgriff** » Fri May 04, 2007 2:55 am

cylinder cocks are opened when the loco is at a stand and until just after start up to clear any condensed steam/water from the cyls. put too much water in the boiler or start up a rising grade with the boiler full will result in priming when boiler water is lifted along with steam and feed to the cyls, water does not compress so it has to be cleared, also when priming the ejectors (on vacuum brake loco's, not to be confused with injectors.. ejectors take air out the system, injectors put water in the boiler) also fail and the train will loose vacuum and the brakes to be applied...

This I remember well,

when as a fireman on British Railways approaching the Lickey Incline to full a boiler caused this, to little water though resulted in failing half way up much to the annoyance of the bankers...

Better shut up now, could go on for hours....

mickrik · Post by **mickrik** » Fri May 04, 2007 4:58 am

Hi there

you can go on for as long as you like

mickrik

dikkidee · Post by **dikkidee** » Fri May 04, 2007 7:26 am

Yes please - we are all ears!

Tonysmedley · Post by **Tonysmedley** » Fri May 04, 2007 9:09 am

Not only the train engine on the Lickey! On one occasion we had three bankers- two 3T tanks and an old 2F or 3f tender loco at the rear. The tender loco could not keep up with the rest of the train and arrived at the top rather later than the main convoy!

Tony

jetgriff · Post by **jetgriff** » Fri May 04, 2007 9:51 am

I remember well when the 7P 3cylinder Royal Scots were allocated to our shed 21A Saltley, we always had Black 5's or Jubilee's on the Sheffield Bristol expresses, today we had Royal Scot "Queens Westminster Rifleman".
The bobby (signalman) at Birmingham new Street put the Worcester local out in front of us.

All the way as far as Stoke Jnc just the other side of Bromsgrove it kept us in check, we were on 75% to 45% regualtor cut off as we struggled to keep the heavy train moving, at average 50% cut off we were using too much steam, low speeds mean the higher the addmision rate of steam to the cyls was needed to keep the train going, we lost 20mins and the pressure was down to 175lb and only half a glass of water.

Stoke Jct and off went the local on its way to Worcester we got the 'back uns' off then (the yellow distant signals meaning all clear in front.) Once we got the train trotting along 75mph + we could wind up the cut off to 15%. Once the ecconomy of that amount of cut off took effect the pressure rose to 225lb and the boiler was full, we went through Ashchurchat 90mph, we arrived at Cheltenham only a few mins late after one of the best runs we had ever done.

Now I knew how the firemen on the Trent Vally kept the Scots and Coronations trotting along for hour after hour. Get the train moving wind up the cut off and benifit from the steam savings.

15% cut off ment steam was only admitted to the cylinders for 15% of the stroke against the 75% admission to get a standing train moving.

therefore start them at 75% and as you get moving wind them back.

thegoonden · Post by **thegoonden** » Fri May 04, 2007 12:49 pm

In MSTS it seems possible to "stall" the stroke in some loco's....when you have the cutoff at "drag your heavy backside out of the station", suddenly, the speed starts to fall away, and you have to close the cutoff a bit for a few seconds then open it again.

Something to do with....
A. flooding the cylinders with steam that then condenses, priming the cylinder.
B. MSTS being full of manure.
C. The wild imaginings of someone who should stick to diesels

?

mickrik · Post by **mickrik** » Fri May 04, 2007 4:52 pm

Tales from the footplate

I love 'em

Mickrik

jetgriff · Post by **jetgriff** » Fri May 04, 2007 8:49 pm

are you getting wheel spin when starting? That would result in stalling, always start with the cyl cocks open because there is steam condensed in there anyway.

I remember on all steam engines if you had stopped with the valves in a certain postion not enough steam would be addmitted to get the train moving, the solution was to shut the regulator, wind it into reverse open the regulator to ease back on the couplings then back into forward and try again.

MSTS has many funny little ways, but as I have said on here before no 2 steam loco's were the same every one had its own little querks, the fireman on changeover could spend up to 5 mins telling his relief all the funny ways of that loco.

thegoonden · Post by **thegoonden** » Fri May 04, 2007 9:00 pm

WOW, that's really interesting you should bring up cylinder positions.......
I was looking at a train go by on MSTS and thinking about the big weigths build into one side of each drive wheel. Then it occurred to me, they might be to encourage the mechanism to come to rest in a position conducive to a good start......my reasoning was, oddly enough, based on watching two folks try to rock a 1970's F1 car (a Williams FW07 I believe) to get the cylinders into a good configuration to apply the "magic cattleprod".

No wheelspin though when I seem to "stall".
This may seem a strange point of view round here, but I envy no one the task of running a steamer. Tricky things, not to mention hot, and occasionally explosive

But don't let me interupt your tales of man+loco Vs Gravity

jetgriff · Post by **jetgriff** » Fri May 04, 2007 10:11 pm

they are counter weights put there to off set the weight of the coupling rods on the wheels, bit like balancing the wheels on a car.
You will notice the driving wheel with the coupling rods and the piston rod attached has a larger counter weight.

jetgriff · Post by **jetgriff** » Fri May 04, 2007 10:18 pm

dont seem like 47 years since my mate took this picture of me at 21a Saltley

<IMG width="400" height="269" SRC="http://www.atomic-album.com/showPic.php/103631/3046.jpg">

thegoonden · Post by **thegoonden** » Sat May 05, 2007 1:26 am

I'm JUST too young to actually remember steam, I think the last steam service ran in Northern Ireland in about 1969, and I was born in 71.

A dashing figure you cut there

Read somewhere that steam may yet make a comeback, something about modern steamers being easier and cheaper to run. I would assume they'd be oil fired though, as surely the big thing that shot steam in the foot originally was the time needed to coal and fire and generally take care of the engines.

Boys like you could have cushy jobs training whippersnappers in the ways of the quick kettle

rickloader · Post by **rickloader** » Sat May 05, 2007 10:30 pm

How about some recollections of Saltley please?
I was trainspotting lines of withdrawn class 5s and 8Fs at Saltley in `67.
Got a terrifying lecture on trespass from a Transport policeman complete with alsation! At SR sheds you could just ask the shed foreman for permission to visit. Cor! not in Brum!
Thanks for the technical info too. I didn`t know that priming affected the brakeejector
Rick

Atomic Systems

General Questions on 'Kettles'

General Questions on 'Kettles'

cylinder cocks

post subject

well then, regulator cut off

wheel spin?

counter weights

long time ago