Voyager out...Come back loco hauled trains all is forgiven!

crosscountry · Post by **crosscountry** » Sun Jul 28, 2002 4:22 pm

like I said, I can't be arsed. I have my opinion, you have yours.
I like pre-booking, Alan doesn't.
What I will say is that Alan shouldn't preach to me about being a musician as a I am a grade 8 pianist, drummer, orchestral percussionist and have sung with a close harmony ensemble at the Royal Festival Hall, the noise doesn't bother me, infact I find it amusing to annoy other passengers by harmonising with a class 158!!!

Goingnorth · Post by **Goingnorth** » Sun Jul 28, 2002 4:27 pm

he he

AlanP46 · Post by **AlanP46** » Sun Jul 28, 2002 5:38 pm

crosscountry wrote: What I will say is that Alan shouldn't preach to me about being a musician as a I am a grade 8 pianist...

I never preached. I just said I feel the vibrations in me, and thats the reason why i notice them more - I'm not grade 8 - but I'm a jazz pianist amonst other things so I look out for different sounds, not neccesarly "musical" ones.

Alan

Goingnorth · Post by **Goingnorth** » Sun Jul 28, 2002 6:13 pm

I'm not a musician, but I can vouch they shudder a bit and vibrate more than a 20 year old Scoda with jet fuel in. Mind you it depends where you sit of-course...that's if you can get a seat.

yorkie2k · Post by **yorkie2k** » Sun Jul 28, 2002 10:44 pm

I think Voyager will struggle when it comes to services such as The Cornishman. Always full and people standing between about Leeds and Exeter in both directions, and especially between Bristol and Birmingham when it is DIABOLICALY FULL (whenever I've been on it), how on earth will a 5-car Voyager cope?

It's also disappointing that the Dundee-Plymouth route is going to go via Leeds and call at lots of stations. This is an opportunity for Virgin to do what GNER does and have real express trains. Taking the NE-SW services as an example, they should have long fast push-pull trains from Scotland to Penzance calling at few stations (e.g. non-stop Newcastle-York like GNER's fastest trains do, and not bother with Tamworth, Cheltenham etc) and then they can have the not-so-long distance services (e.g. Newcastle to Plymouth) calling at all the intermediate stations.

It's so annoying when going from Cornwall to York having to go via Leeds (if I didn't always have an advance ticket, I'd be tempted to get out at Sheffield, get a TPE to Doncaster and GNER to York - can save 20 mins!), and call at places like Cheltenham & Chesterfield and spend at least 30 minutes in Bristol (calling at both stations and spending ages at Temple Meads). If it wasnâ€™t for the cheap pricing of advance tickets on Virgin I'd go via London as it's usually considerably quicker!

The other issue that was mentioned is the TransPennine Express. This is the sort of service the tilting Super Voyager would be ideal for! It's appalling that 158's are used. The overcrowding is diabolical even in off-peak. e.g. the off-peak 1019 from York is so overcrowded! The overcrowded 158s must put a LOT of people off going by train. OK, so some of the stations (Garforth, Dewsbury etc) can't take long trains but so what? Those stations can be missed out by the longer-distance trains, which SHOULD only call at principle stations anyway.

But overall, I can't really comment on Voyager as a train as I've not travelled in one yet. However the feel/look of driving a Voyager in MSTS isnâ€™t comparable to driving an HST, but that's just my opinion

yorkie2k · Post by **yorkie2k** » Sun Jul 28, 2002 10:50 pm

One thing I've thought.. anyone experience TransPennine Express in the days of loco-hauled services? What were they like? Could you actually get a seat on them?!!!

It seems that longer trains are being phased out, is it a conspiracy to make people stand?! Only GNER (that I know of) go against this abysmal trend (by using the nice long Eurostar trains).

Goingnorth · Post by **Goingnorth** » Sun Jul 28, 2002 11:20 pm

I just about caught the end of it. Travelled on a 47 hauled train with MK2bs from Leeds to Manchester. I got a seat, but the train was quite crowded.

Thinking about it those that didn't experience such things have really missed out and I can see why some moan about the DMU era.

Although (as a person) I except progress more than willingly, I think trans-pennine and most of the Scotrail network has gone downhill in many ways since loco-hauled trains were abolished. There is something 'missing'.

AlanP46 · Post by **AlanP46** » Mon Jul 29, 2002 6:31 pm

yorkie2k wrote:I think Voyager will struggle when it comes to services such as The Cornishman. Always full and people standing between about Leeds and Exeter in both directions, and especially between Bristol and Birmingham when it is DIABOLICALY FULL (whenever I've been on it), how on earth will a 5-car Voyager cope?

As XC, and beardie (Branson!) are keen to point out, there will be twice as many trains... However, I and many others believe this plan to be fatally flawed because long haul services do not lend themselves to every 30 mins departures....

yorkie2k wrote:The other issue that was mentioned is the TransPennine Express. This is the sort of service the tilting Super Voyager would be ideal for! It's appalling that 158's are used. The overcrowding is diabolical even in off-peak. e.g. the off-peak 1019 from York is so overcrowded! The overcrowded 158s must put a LOT of people off going by train. OK, so some of the stations (Garforth, Dewsbury etc) can't take long trains but so what? Those stations can be missed out by the longer-distance trains, which SHOULD only call at principle stations anyway.

The idea when they were started was there was twice as many trains too...you just described perfectly the results of this short sightedness.

I didn't really experiance the TPE when it was LHCS - I do remember the NW Club trains which were excellent - especially judging by the farce I witnessed tonight when the services that were club trains very nearly collided...thanks to a rather stupid that I'm sure the HSE wouldn't approve off...well, the old service was much better.

Alan

cadet200 · Post by **cadet200** » Mon Jul 29, 2002 7:33 pm

only slightly related but i heard that sometime last year first nw were considering the class 180 for the rochdale-euston service. i don't actually know what stock they're using at the moment (158's i suppose) for this route, i guess the 180's won't be happening.

crosscountry · Post by **crosscountry** » Mon Jul 29, 2002 8:25 pm

good news for those who travel south west to north east, as of september services to the south west will go via Doncaster whilst south coast trains will go via Leeds, thats what I read anyway.

micksasse · Post by **micksasse** » Mon Jul 29, 2002 11:17 pm

I've just spent a hell of a long time typing a fair lengthy contribution to this discussion - only to find when attempting to post it that the forum has thrown me off. i've tried to use the Back button but it won't take me back to my text so I can cut and paste it and/or try again.

Anything I can do or have I lost 1/2 hour's work? Where is the fault?

am pretty pished off...

AlanP46 · Post by **AlanP46** » Tue Jul 30, 2002 5:56 pm

cadet200 wrote:only slightly related but i heard that sometime last year first nw were considering the class 180 for the rochdale-euston service. i don't actually know what stock they're using at the moment (158's i suppose) for this route, i guess the 180's won't be happening.

The rochdale - london service ceased to run a while ago, thanks to beardie doing a 'golden handshake' and effictivly stripping FNW of their path, despite that particular service being a franchise commitment. You can still travel at that price though - FNW simply hire 1 coach on 3 VT trains each way, but for how much longer well...

Alan

cadet200 · Post by **cadet200** » Tue Jul 30, 2002 6:03 pm

cheers bud, as you may have guessed, i had no idea what was going on.

simont · Post by **simont** » Tue Jul 30, 2002 8:43 pm

Why anyone would want to travel from Manchester to London in a 158, though, I have no idea...

Goingnorth · Post by **Goingnorth** » Tue Jul 30, 2002 8:44 pm

Or Hull to London in a Turbostar....Mind you they are getting 125s now I think.

Atomic Systems

Voyager out...Come back loco hauled trains all is forgiven!

What's the best sort of train for inter-city travel?

Just lost my bloody posting!