Atomic Systems

Just wondering what the real life loading on 'Up' trains on the Ruabon route were as I 'm struggling to make progress beyond Bontewydd with a 43xx and 3 on. With a 43xx and Pannier pilot I stall everytime with a 5 coach train.

What do other people take up the grade at this location

mellpool wrote:Just wondering what the real life loading on 'Up' trains on the Ruabon route were as I 'm struggling to make progress beyond Bontewydd with a 43xx and 3 on. With a 43xx and Pannier pilot I stall everytime with a 5 coach train.

What do other people take up the grade at this location

Have you you switch on the Sanding gear Press X on you KB

MARTIN

And also try lowering the reverser value from full forward to half forward when you are at a good speed

Real loadings were normally 5 coaches for 43XX moguls, Ivatt 2s, Collett Goods, Standard 4s etc, but most of these locos are capable of more. Careful use of the reverser is needed, sanding gear may neeed to be used, and it works best with manual firing as the computer fireman can't keep up as well!

Just to show it can be done I managed to take a 43XX mogul over with 8 on, it struggled, but got there without stalling.

davidaward wrote:Real loadings were normally 5 coaches for 43XX moguls, Ivatt 2s, Collett Goods, Standard 4s etc, but most of these locos are capable of more. Careful use of the reverser is needed, sanding gear may neeed to be used, and it works best with manual firing as the computer fireman can't keep up as well!

Just to show it can be done I managed to take a 43XX mogul over with 8 on, it struggled, but got there without stalling.

I'm still a bit of a rookie then! I'll take the advice and have another pop at it over the weekend

You may find that the eng file that came with the loco is way off what it should be. I have spent a lot of time adjusting eng files (and wag files come to that) so that their values are more accurate and therefore the whole train behaves more prototypically!

I have noticed that many of the model makers who make superb models don't create accurate eng and wag files. I am not blaming them since it has taken me ages to work out what all the values mean and I can't even produce a basic model!

If you need an amended eng file for the 43xx, let me know your e-mail addy and I will copy it over to you. By the way all my locos are set up for automatic fireman and according to crick who is one of the community's great experts on eng files, there is a difference.

Setting up accurate eng files is a great way to learn about the locos in real life and I have picked up such a lot of info along the way.

But as in real life, there are good locos and those that leak like a sieve, so "clever" driving is also a must as has been pointed out by others!!

Chris

Actually the 43XX eng file is spot on (for manual firing) I had it specially made for the loco, that's if its one of my reskins (the multipacks), the file was done by crick14A (Rick Gibb) whom you mention in the post. I get him to do this as for me it spoils a loco if the eng file isn't done well. As an engineman myself I prefer it when the operate correctly and struggle a bit upgrade if it doesn't where's the fun in that! All mine are set up for manual firing, as you can get greater performance that way (again as I fire locos regularly during the summer months- like it realistic!).

From the Appendix to GWR Service Timetable No 14 (1945):

"The loads given in the tables represent the capacity of the engine if the standard point to point timing is to be maintained. On sections where gradients will permit, these loads may be exceeded with a suitable increase in the point-to-point timing, but on sections where there are steep rising gradients it will be necessary to provide an assistant engine."



"In the case of a Foreign Company’s vehicle, not marked with the tare weight, being formed in a train, the weight of the vehicle must be counted as 10 tons for a Horse Box, Carriage Truck, or other such small vehicle, 20 tons for a four or six-wheeled passenger-carrying vehicle or brake van, 30 tons for an eight-wheeled passenger-carrying vehicle or brake van, other than 70-ft. stock, and 40 tons for a dining car, sleeping car, or 70 ft passenger-carrying vehicle or brake van."

davidaward wrote:Real loadings were normally 5 coaches for 43XX moguls, Ivatt 2s, Collett Goods, Standard 4s etc, but most of these locos are capable of more. Careful use of the reverser is needed, sanding gear may neeed to be used, and it works best with manual firing as the computer fireman can't keep up as well!

Just to show it can be done I managed to take a 43XX mogul over with 8 on, it struggled, but got there without stalling.

I tried it last night with 8 BATS Mark 1s, speed dropped to 12 mph on the steep part just after Bontnewydd but then recovered to about 18 mph. I would think that's fairly prototypical. This was using manual firing and without stopping at any of the intermediate stations. As David says, careful use of the reverser to maintain boiler pressure is essential. On the steep part I was using 100% regulator and about 45% cut-off, with sanders on. Most of the way you don't need to be quite so extreme. Two other tips: (1) make sure you have a decent fire temperature before setting off - the mogul's starting temperature is about 645 but shut the firebox door and let this rise towards 850. The draught from the chimney once you set off will then take it up towards 1000 quite quickly and (2) the starting setting for the loco's blowers is 25% - OK for normal operations when you want to manage your coal consumption but you will need more oomph to get up the big hill: use the M key to increase to 100% straight away.

splargg wrote:the starting setting for the loco's blowers is 25% - OK for normal operations when you want to manage your coal consumption but you will need more oomph to get up the big hill: use the M key to increase to 100% straight away.

Don't you mean the dampers?

Blower is turned down to minimum once you've opened the regulator as all it does then is use excess steam.

I think with a load of 8 the loco would have been assisted though by a Penmaenpool based pilot (Dean Goods/Collet Goods?) to keep it moving at reasonable speed.

In real life, true, but unfortunately MSTS doesn't behave the way a real loco does (being a passed cleaner on the SVR myself.)

In MSTS both the dampers and the blower only serve to regulate steam production - opening both more simply increases the steaming rate.

Oh, for a simulator that accurately represents the damn hard work involved!

Seb

AFAIK the standard load table shows the max load a single engine can keep to time with, so the 8 coach (31.5 tons per coach) maximum would seem correct. The timings over the Dolgelley - Llanuwchllyn section weren't too tight in 1950 - c13 miles in 35-38 mins with 6 stops:



mellpool - good luck this weekend!

A belated thanks to everyone for replying on this topic