Dodgy magazine review

dilflat · Post by **dilflat** » Fri Jul 19, 2002 5:57 pm

Have any of you purchased the current issue of Computer Active Magazine? Inside they have a feature on simulators and their use as teaching and training aids.

After waxing lyrical about flightsim and a racecar game they then moved on to Train Simulator. For the purposes of the test they allegedly asked an anonymous train driver to test the sim.

After enlightening the reader with the statement:
"Controlling the train with the computer is totally wierd because your just pressing little buttons and a train is a big manual thing" the reviewer stated that there were far to many keys to learn and that as far as he was concerned was nothing like a real train (even my limited intellect feels that he is missing the point of the sim a bit).

The finishing swipe is the quote "If I was an employer looking for train drivers and someone came along who played this I wouldn't give them the job because I would think that they were a wierdo" and, "I can't imagine anyone who drives trains would go home and play this"

It would be interesting to know what the real world drivers among you feel about this.

Irate correspondance to:letters@computeractive.co.uk

Dave.

Goingnorth · Post by **Goingnorth** » Fri Jul 19, 2002 6:06 pm

I've been in a quite a few train cabs and I know what he means. I get your point about it being a simulator etc, but to be honest it is nothing like a real train nor does the railway (routes) work like a real railway. Sure it's the best we have, but as far as it goes it's very basic. Sorry.

It's clever entertainment sofware.

37714 · Post by **37714** » Fri Jul 19, 2002 6:27 pm

Bah.

So its not 100% perfect, i agree its not how it would be in real life, but calling people 'weirdo' if they like playing a certain game is very childish. Especially for a computer Magazine.

Quite a few people who play this game are/were Drivers, and i'm pretty certain i've seen some good comments.

larrylane · Post by **larrylane** » Fri Jul 19, 2002 6:51 pm

Basically how can the reviewer say Train Sim is any less realistic than flight sim. After all you are pressing keys to fly the planes in flight sim arent you ? As for the cabs being full of big levers in real life trains that you have to manipulate to drive ? Well planes are, have you seen the size and number of throttle levers in a real plane ? Sitting using a computer joystick is nothing like using real flight controlls in a plane. Basically they seem biased in my opinon, saying that train sim has more keys to press compared to say the MS Flight Sim range is taking the pee a bit. Basically it boils down to the old "train spotting" thing as they see anyone wanting to drive a train as an anorak but if you fly a plane on your comp your seen as "dead ard". Hmmm i think i got that off my chest now, dunno what anyone else thinks but i have played both MS Flight Sim's and Train Sim so i feel i can make the comparisons i have made,

Regards Tim

MartinH · Post by **MartinH** » Fri Jul 19, 2002 6:58 pm

Dilflat, I'm very disappointed. I thought you'd reviewed a dodgy magazine for us.

I suppose if the article was about using games to train employees then the comments are fair (although sure also true for flightsim). Personally I play the game for fun and as a fun game, it's excellent.

Martin

P.S. I've never driven a real train, so wouldn't know and couldn't care how realistic it is. It's good enough for me.

daveannjon · Post by **daveannjon** » Fri Jul 19, 2002 7:53 pm

If they were using the default stock and routes the criticism might be justified? I've only ever driven a dmu (On SVR and Peak Rail) and I don't think it's too bad, in fact I thought it could be quite good for route learning if all the details were correct.
Dave W

johncarr · Post by **johncarr** » Fri Jul 19, 2002 8:20 pm

As a retired pilot with some 9000 hours the comments about MS Flight Simulator are a liitle out. MSFS is a very useful tool in not only learning instrument procedures, but also in basic flying skills. Friends of mine still in the "game" praise the latest version in all aspects from basic flying to taking a 777 from say from UK to America. I regularly simulate the flight I intend to take as passenger to cheekily make sure the chap up front knows where/what he is doing, or is it because I am the world's worse passenger.

Although you normally do not have all three or four throttles to play with, unless you spend a lot of money and get a control column that does, using one lever instead of 3/4 them does not upset/confuse me.

How about someone designing/building a cab and linking it into MSTS. (Dont ask me I,m only a driver not an engineer)

Regards John Carr

PS If I remember correctly all US navy pilots are given a laptop and a copy of MSFS to help with learning the instrument flying/procedures. I,m ex RAF and BA.

chutchings4 · Post by **chutchings4** » Fri Jul 19, 2002 10:45 pm

As John Carr points out, Flight Sim is useful for teaching instrumentation and basic flight rules. The same applies to Train Sim. It allows you to drive a train in a very basic sense, following railway "rules". For proper flight tuition, airlines have huge simulators costing millions of Â£Â£ (or $$$).

Anyway, I remember the first version of MS flight sim which I played on a poky old Mac Plus, on it was nothing like as advanced as this first version on Train Sim, but I thought it was great!

But enough said, I think Train Sim works well, considering the limitations.

Charlie

Kevo00 · Post by **Kevo00** » Fri Jul 19, 2002 11:38 pm

Sure don't Virgin and EWS both have big super simulator computers for driver training anyway? Why would a good railway company want to use MSTS when they can develop custom built realistic software with mock up cabs and controls. I remember an article in Rail magazine about Virgin owning a Pendelino and a Voyager simulator (two seperate machines with proper mock up cabs) and EWS having a 66 simulator which is similar, and even has a TOPS number!

So there is no need for drivers to be trained on MSTS!

Timcourt1 · Post by **Timcourt1** » Fri Jul 19, 2002 11:47 pm

Funny actually because trainsim has had a bit of a knocking from some of the game community here, I showed a 16 year old avid gamer a few weeks ago with his mates...

They said they had heard about it in the mags etc and it was just another boring sim to them until..................

I set up an activity on mideast and got them to run a 56 with 36 full hoppers on, they said it was boring...until.... they hit West Burton power station and had to slow to 10 MPH in time for the limit.

First impression was "awesome" when they saw the graphics and they went away totally impressed when they saw RE working and realised you could create whole new worlds at several thousand mouse clicks.

Not my opinion- just those of a bunch of 16yr old american kids.

warriorgoku · Post by **warriorgoku** » Sat Jul 20, 2002 6:25 am

fs2002 is actually used to train professional pilots and also to train military pilots.

iangrove110 · Post by **iangrove110** » Sat Jul 20, 2002 9:34 am

Just curious whether the reviewer is really a qualified Driver/Airline Pilot...or just another superannuated magazine hack with a big chunk of white space that needs filling. "..a train is a big manual thing" sounds a highly technical engineereing assesment to me!!

Unfortunately, the rail community is (& has long been) an easy target for the general press. (Not that FlightSims are immune either - anyone else remember that hilarious Fast Show sketch where the guy "jets his girl friend off the the sun" in the comfort of his own bedsit?)

Seriously though, presumably the Developers take note of reviews/comments in the "mainstream" press - probably as much as the more informed opinions found in this (& other) forums. In the context of MSTS2 a more considered summary of the acknowledged strengths/weaknesses of the sim would have been of more value that (what sounds like) ill-informed comment such as presented.

bjdick · Post by **bjdick** » Sat Jul 20, 2002 10:23 am

I think the most basic thing missing from MSTS,from a driving point of view,is that there is no driving "feedback",as in real life.It's a passive type of simulation.
Flight simulation,with a decent joystick,gives the feedback responses to your control input,and enables a greater degree of user interaction within the simulation,to be achieved,especially if you make a mistake!
Perhaps a joystick,or two?(one driving,one firing) solution integrated with any further development of MSTS would give a more "hands on" driving experience.

spartacus · Post by **spartacus** » Mon Jul 22, 2002 2:54 pm

I've driven a few real life steamers in my time and been on the footplate, sorry, cab of diesels. If you try driving a steamer with the keys it feels pretty terrible, though if you try it with the mouse, much better. Its the opposite with most diesel cabs, just look at how many buttons there are in modern cabs, most of which arent used on MSTS!! Yes, the game does get me angry at its faults, sometimes pretty basic (wheelslip, brakes, lack of handbrake....) but the only thing i'd really cry out for would be the feel of being stood on the footplate at speed. Just put a wheel or two on off-centre and that would do for me!

spartacus · Post by **spartacus** » Mon Jul 22, 2002 2:59 pm

And an option to be 'just' the fireman! Unless you're on a Peckett or summat, you just wouldnt do both at the same time. Options of a driver that like to run the engine and you hard, or easy. Maybe even a chance to work your way up from passed cleaner, to top link 'Sir' driver! THis is starting to look like 'what we want for MSTS 2'!

Atomic Systems

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