HEIDI EXPRESS and Just Trains EURO LOCO Pack

Tepic · Post by **Tepic** » Fri Jul 05, 2002 7:50 pm

It's the quality of the Scenery Graphics and the 4 - 10 FpS which turn me off !! My machine has been built to my specs by my own OEM section, AMD XP 1900+, ASUS A7N266-E MoBo, 512 Mb DDR SDRAM, Guillemot Hercules RADEON 8500 Graphics and 2 x 28 Gb 5.9 ms Seagate Cheetahs.

This worries me! 4-10 Fps on that spec?

I'll have no chance with mine. I was looking forward to getting Heidi!

OTTODAD · Post by **OTTODAD** » Fri Jul 05, 2002 7:58 pm

Tepic wrote:The catenary & Panto thing is a MSTS problem rather than one with the addons.

No, it is not a MSTS Problem.

MSTS does not supply an European Electrified Route. The problem is that most European Add-On creators, commercial or not, have their own ideas about what it should be and design their Pantos to match the Catenary in their Route's *.TRK File. With the exception of the first release of Just Trains TGV Pack which had 6 metres Pantos running on their Route's 5.8 metres Catenary. I had words about that with Alex Ford and they fixed it consequently with an Update, including the disappearing JT TGVs. There is no common standard which would allow everybody's Locos to run on everybody's European Track Systems.

I have suggested to KUJU that they allow LOCOS to auto-adjust their Pantos to the Catenary Height of the Route they are being run on, like in real life. Being a Programmer myself, I can not see this being a problem !

I would like to run an ACELA in Europe and a TGV in the USA. "Not PROTOTYPE", I can hear some say ? How do you know that some USA Rail corporations are not going to buy TGV's one day ?

Tepic · Post by **Tepic** » Fri Jul 05, 2002 8:08 pm

I have suggested to KUJU that they allow LOCOS to auto-adjust their Pantos to the Catenary Height of the Route they are being run on, like in real life. Being a Programmer myself, I can not see this being a problem !

That seems the sensable answer. Lets hope.

simuk · Post by **simuk** » Fri Jul 05, 2002 8:12 pm

OTTODAD wrote:
Tepic wrote:The catenary & Panto thing is a MSTS problem rather than one with the addons.

No, it is not a MSTS Problem.

<snipped>

I have suggested to KUJU that they allow LOCOS to auto-adjust their Pantos to the Catenary Height of the Route they are being run on, like in real life. Being a Programmer myself, I can not see this being a problem !

It quite clearly is an MSTS problem, for the very reason that you outlined - Kuju didn't include it in MSTS 1.0 - maybe they will in a 1.5 or in MSTS 2.0, maybe.

Until then though, we (MSTS users) have no set dimensions for things like overhead catenary, and it's made "to look right" which is why there are variations. Until MSTS supports panto's that adjust to the height (and I don't know how you'd do that on existing models that don't support it) it's "a problem with MSTS"... isn't it?

OTTODAD · Post by **OTTODAD** » Fri Jul 05, 2002 8:25 pm

simuk wrote:No offence, but are we ment to be psychic to look on another sites forum to check your profile to find out who you are...? and it requires you to log in to view it too

No, not really.

It's just that this Forum can not not provide more details about who you are and what you do. ARE YOU READING THIS, WEBMASTER ?

You do not have to "Login" to view a Message's user Profile in the Train-Sim Forum. At the top right of each message there are some Icons, one being a Head. "Click on it to view the user Profile" is the HELP line that goes with it.

simuk · Post by **simuk** » Fri Jul 05, 2002 8:31 pm

OTTODAD wrote:
simuk wrote:No offence, but are we ment to be psychic to look on another sites forum to check your profile to find out who you are...? and it requires you to log in to view it too
No, not really. It's just that this Forum can not not provide more details about who you are and what you do. ARE YOU READING THIS, WEBMASTER ?

You do not have to "Login" to view a Message's user Profile in the Train-Sim Forum. At the top right of each message there are some Icons, one being a Head. "Click on it to view the user Profile" is the HELP line that goes with it.

Yes Matt does read this forum, and I'm sure he'll take your suggestions/comments on - why not mention them in the Site Admin forum?

As for train-sim's forum, and viewing the profile - you do have to log in, that's why I said so, as I clicked the link and tried to check your profile.

OTTODAD · Post by **OTTODAD** » Fri Jul 05, 2002 8:38 pm

simuk wrote:What framerate do you expect from MSTS, Ottodad? Do you know what the recommended average framerate is for MSTS?

There is no "Recommended" Framerate I have ever seen quoted. I can get up to 45+ FpS in some areas and ZILCH in others. Depends very much on your Hardware too.

It very much relates to how the creator of an Add-On presents his files to MSTS for Graphical processing, something I learned from Teemu Saukkonen, the creator (with Okrasa) of the N.&.N.J., which has a few ZERO frame rates in places.

The next release of MSTS will no doubt improve on a lot of things we now grumble about, I hope !

simuk · Post by **simuk** » Fri Jul 05, 2002 8:47 pm

OTTODAD wrote:
simuk wrote:What framerate do you expect from MSTS, Ottodad? Do you know what the recommended average framerate is for MSTS?
There is no "Recommended" Framerate I have ever seen quoted. I can get up to 45+ FpS in some areas and ZILCH in others. Depends very much on your Hardware too.

It very much relates to how the creator of an Add-On presents his files to MSTS for Graphical processing, something I learned from Teemu Saukkonen, the creator (with Okrasa) of the N.&.N.J., which has a few ZERO frame rates in places.

The next release of MSTS will no doubt improve on a lot of things we now grumble about, I hope !

The recommended framerate for MSTS (according to the official Microsoft/Sybex book) is "around 20 frames per second" and "never accept less than 10". It says that "If your framerate stays above 15 your doing great" so I'd say 15 is the suggested framerate (at 60mph).

Now, clearly you aren't getting this with the Heidi Express, and I believe that the terrain is one of the major things that blows the framerate, so try setting your draw distance to less, and altering the terrain detailing factor (can't remember the exact name of it) to see what sort of affect that has.

I usually get a steady 20/27fps, and around 40fps on flat-ish terrain. I have two copies of MSTS and have one installed on an AMD 650, and one on a Pentium 4 2ghz laptop, and get good framerates from both - what can cause problems though is things like other programs running (or had been running earlier), memory leaks, and also hard drive thrashing - I presume you aren't having these problems though? What speed is your harddrive btw, and what UDMA/ATA speed - might all have a small affect on the overall performance. I've definetly never had one route drop massively on framerate though, other than where it's entered a new world tile which has numerous new objects that it had to load, and the whole thing got a bit choppy for a few moments.

OTTODAD · Post by **OTTODAD** » Fri Jul 05, 2002 8:54 pm

Tepic wrote:[This worries me! 4-10 Fps on that spec? I'll have no chance with mine. I was looking forward to getting Heidi!

Reading many messages in many SIM Forums, nothing better to do at the moment,

, it seems that some of the older cards like the Geforce 2 and the VODOO 5500 I ditched are doing a better job for MSTS than newer ones. The latest GeForce 4 are said to be good, depending on the WIN O/S and DirectX 8.1 compatibilty.

Forgot to mention that I am using WIN 98 SE and DirectX 8.1 myself.

If you get reasonable MSTS Frame Rates with your current kit then HEIDI will probably disappoint. I get good Frame Rates with most of MSTS and it's Add-Ons.

OTTODAD · Post by **OTTODAD** » Fri Jul 05, 2002 9:06 pm

simuk wrote:What speed is your harddrive and what UDMA/ATA

5.9 ms 28 Gb Cheetahs at 130 UDMA.

If you are going to get HEIDI, let us know how you are getting on with it on your machines. At the moment I appear to be the "Lonely Wolf" howling, but not for long, I am sure !

simuk · Post by **simuk** » Fri Jul 05, 2002 9:13 pm

OTTODAD wrote:
simuk wrote:What speed is your harddrive and what UDMA/ATA
5.9 ms 28 Gb Cheetahs at 130 UDMA.

If you are going to get HEIDI, let us know how you are getting on with it on your machines. At the moment I appear to be the "Lonely Wolf" howling, but not for long, I am sure !

sure, shall let you know how it is as soon as my review code copy arrives. the speed of the hard drive, I ment rpm - 5400, 7200?

Tepic · Post by **Tepic** » Fri Jul 05, 2002 9:17 pm

I still intend to buy it, and I'll post my results (more people will have it before me though!)

If it is really choppy, It'll just be another excuse for an upgrade

I have a 1500XP+, 640MB RAM, 7200 20 gig HD, and a creative Pci512 card.

MY average frame rate with everything set high except visibility which is at about 1500 is 20. It never drops below 10 in normal use.

I have noticed some decidedly rough frame rates when running pats S&C when the carrage sidings at carlisle are loaded with detailed carrages, but that's to be expected!

OTTODAD · Post by **OTTODAD** » Fri Jul 05, 2002 9:58 pm

simuk wrote:What speed is your speed of the hard drive, I ment rpm - 5400, 7200?

Sorry, 7200 rpm.

I am not worried about my Hardware too much, as it's up-to-date as can be right now and working well with FS2002 and most of MSTS. But UDMA 400, even faster SCSI drives, P4 2000+, DDR RAM as much as I can afford up to 3 Gb, new 512-bit GPU Graphics card with DirectX 9 will replace my setup after the next release of MSTS, which no doubt will be coded to take advantage of all the latest ?

If not, I'll stick with what I got.

OTTODAD · Post by **OTTODAD** » Fri Jul 05, 2002 11:41 pm

bigvern wrote:"As regards the content of the route pack, well I haven't seen it yet but if memory serves me correctly much of the Rhatische Bahn runs through remote scenery with "a few Swiss looking chalets."

You can refresh your memory by looking at: http://www.otto-wipfel.co.uk/oaw_000013.htm

> but you seem to have little grasp of the sheer amount of work that has to go into creating a route and associated rolling stock.

Having been an Accounting Software Programmer for the past 20 years and lately designing Web sites, I should know how much work goes into creating any demanding and exacting Software. The only difference between my Software and that of Microsofts and some in the Gaming Industry's is that mine has got to work right down to the last line of code and no excuses ! Check out: http://www.otto-wipfel.co.uk

If not then a little gratitude towards those who are working hard to produce third party items would not go amiss.

Gratitude for what ? If I PAY for something I am entitled to get goods fit for the intended purpose. How the Software Industry got away with the Y2K Fiasco and consequent buggy, insecure and faulty Software to date, contravening the SALE of GOODS ACT is incomprehensible.

It is the Vendors of Commercial Add-Ons which should be Grateful that I and others continue to purchase despite some of the rubbish dished out by some of them !!!

bigvern · Post by **bigvern** » Sat Jul 06, 2002 7:20 am

All I can add the the above dissertation is that I shall reserve further comment until I purchase the full copy when it is released on 26 July.