MSTS Limitations and Bugginess ?

[OTTODAD]

This may interest some of you !

http://forums.flightsim.com/ts/dcboard. ... 3400&page=

O t t o

[ronald parkin]

Hi Otto, Just been looking at your routes list,where did you get the Marias pass (USA) and No3 from, I have looked all over the place,even thought about GOOGLE Earth .

Regards
Ron P

[jbilton]

Hi OTTO
It just must be my msts setup but if I go over 520 consists I start to get trouble.
The first thing I notice is the words dissappear from the 3 boxes you get when you press the esc key.
However I never close anything down before running MSTS, but have never run out of RAM since getting 1024Mb.
I also do not run a swap file.
There have ben lots of interesting theories recently, including MSTS only uses 100Mb RAM.
As I have a visual RAM monitor running all the time, I can see RAM useage,lowest I got down to was 72Mb remaining.
One thing that I get is after about 14 to 18 days....DirectX suddenly slows right down and only a full reboot will restore frame rates.
Cheers
Jon

[OTTODAD]

Hi Otto, Just been looking at your routes list,where did you get the Marias pass (USA) and No3 from.

The single character/digits routes are my various tracks layouts test routes and the Marias Pass (USA2) is one of the MSTS default USA routes, a poor relation compared with the MARIAS PASS 3.1 and the extended to Athol MARIAS PASS 3 called the MARIAS KOOTENAI I was involved in.

O t t o

[OTTODAD]

Hi Jon !

Many of us have been trying to find a common denominator for what is causing some of you to have these problems and not others !

The way I think MSTS works when it is started is that is scans all .eng files names and their TRAINSET folder locations into an array and displays the Name ( .... ) as listed in each, all if electric and without e-locos if not, at the same time scanning all the consists into another array it then searches to display all associated with a selected loco consists.

Having selected a route in EXPLORE ROUTE Mode MSTS then lets you select a loco and consist for it, to be loaded with the starting path tiles of the route.

If an activity is selected it does similar, loading the player consist and at the same time any loose consists which may be visible in the path starting tiles. Other loose consists and AI trains as and when required by the progressing activity, the latter very noticeable, slightly hesitating running the route whenever an AI train is started out of sight !

What I am getting at is that to start with MSTS is only loading part of Consists and Rolling Stock data into arrays in RAM and consist files being very small should cause it no problems, even on a computer with limited RAM.

There was a member over at TS.com a while ago who has the knowledge of how to log what a program does in RAM and print it out later, interesting to see what MSTS loads as it runs !

O t t o

[rlmathers]

Hi Otto

Couldn`t agree more. I am now in excess of 1200 consist.
I do not use Trainstore. Still running Windows ME 512Mb, Athlon 3000+ with SATARaid data stripping configured drives, Nvidia FX5600XT 256Mb and all routes and activities run with excellent framerates.
File management and even more importantly, error management is absolutely essential to secure a trouble free MSTS.
Anything I download I check before it goes anywhere near MSTS.
MSTS and the Tools & Editors error detect, within limits they will declare using a dialog box, outside those limits the blue screen of death is guaranteed.
Run error free for a totally enjoyable game.

Kindest regards

Ray

[jbilton]

Hi OTTO
"Shouldn't cause it any trouble"....but it does on mine.
As I say the my magic number is 520.
So I have no idea what is the upper limit, Ray's at 1200 sounds fairly high to me, but I can definitely state that 520 is my upper limit...so that is the msts lower limit...unless someone posts differently.
I have never run out of RAM, run on maxed out graphics,with excellent frame rates...and spend a lot of my time beta testing.
So I haven't got the answer, unfortunately I just cannot agree with your findings as published on TS.
Same as I couldn't agree with the 100Mb ones either.
Cheers
Jon

[ianmacmillan]

I only have one my test loco and default in my trainset folder, one consist for it and one path in each route.

When I download a route I take a half an hour to package all the activities and then put the consists, Traffic, services and activities into backup folders.

The routes and their trainsets are kept zipped up on a second drive and ubzipped to their folders when needed and an activity unpacked.

After that I just delete them.

MSTS starts up in seconds.

[jimmyladd]

I use multiple msts instalations with the default routes, stock and consists deleted, so I never have a consist problem, and routes start almost instantly. the biggest headache was finding out how to install acts to the right place, and setting up the editor and tools for each route, but once it's sorted, its a breeze to use...bit HD space hungry! 80GB of routes to date!
Jim

[jbilton]

Hi Ian/Jim

It was OTTOs statement

"As far as I am concerned there are no Consists limitations in MSTS, which I believe has more to do with insufficient RAM than MSTS, which this test on my 1.5 Gb RAM WIN-XP proves, all MAIN MSTS routes switched ON and active and the largest and most complicated route I have, the WUPPER-EXPRESS-10, running without problems !!!"

That I was disagreeing with.

Cheers
Jon

[OTTODAD]

As far as I am concerned there are no Consists limitations in MSTS.

I wonder, is using "How in the World Extended MSTS Menus" the reason why I do not suffer consists overloads ?

O t t o

[saddletank]

Surely that is just a GUI front end util and can't affect how MSTS loads files into memory.

[rlmathers]

Hi Otto

I understand the reason behind your menu question, however, I am struggling with the logic, since Martin`s assumption is correct.

There is one simple test, I wish everyone would make regarding their MSTS setup, just use Conbuilder: Tests - Missing Files - Consists, Engines and Wagons in turn. Similarly, Test all the activities.
It is equally sound advice to run anything you download through Conbuilder and Route-Riter BEFORE you run MSTS.
Accumulated errors are a phenominal task to cure, I have done it!
There are however some errors which neither utility can detect, the most irritating possibly is the UNKNOWN identity in the loco menu, this is easily fixed and has no detrimental effect on the game if left as UNKNOWN.
One fact is absolute, I have learnt a hell of a lot about the game by curing the errors generated by routes, activities and stock.
I have been running MSTS from day one, I have learnt by experience and a great deal from the members of the community.

Kindest regards

Ray

[jbilton]

............There are however some errors which neither utility can detect, the most irritating possibly is the UNKNOWN identity in the loco menu, this is easily fixed and has no detrimental effect on the game if left as UNKNOWN.

Kindest regards

Ray

Hi Ray
I believe the latest versions of Conbuilder and Route Riter have addressed this error....which is caused by a mix of the use of capitals in locos names.
However I'm interested, are you suggesting errors in files increase the likely hood of the msts too many consist fault?
As I would seriously doubt this, as removal of consists will hide faulty files from msts eyes....this is how Train Store works.
Cheers
Jon
Cheers
Jon

[saddletank]

Generally speaking Jon, I agree with you. I have doubts about Ottodads conclusions and advice here. I think the +900 consists bug was in fact first highlighted by Microsoft themselves early in 2002.

However if users use Trainstore or a folder/route/trains renaming system such as UKTS Chooser and conduct sensible PC housekeeping duties then all should be OK.

Martin