Major GWR issue - (skip this if you hate complainers)

clanker88 · Post by **clanker88** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 8:34 pm

I cannot believe anybody has the gaul to charge money for this route. It is so basic it is unreal. I'd feel major disappointment if i'd download this for free - but this is stupid.

Nowhere can I see on the CD ordering page that this route is unfinished - that 'scenery' is a only a (presumably) future optional extra. MAD comes nowhere near describing how i feel at this moment. I dont mind supporting this site via subscription, and I dont mind routes that are not complete that are downloadable from the site. But I DO mind paying money for what i believe is a complete and finished product. I KNOW its cheap - but please do us the favour of telling us UP FRONT that it is incomplete. I've downloaded much better routes from the site free - so I assume that something i pay for is going to be a little better, especially when the route is ONLY available on CD.

I will think twice before purchasing any more routes on CD from UKTRAINSIM

jimmyladd · Post by **jimmyladd** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 8:43 pm

Forwarned is forarmed as they say.....hence why I have never ordered it, although its a route I would like

allypally · Post by **allypally** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 8:46 pm

Well, enjoy scenerising over a 1000 route miles. See you next century, maybe. The route is superb, and apart from there being no scenery in some areas, which is well known, and which most people dont actually mind, as the scenery that is extant is excellent.

Oh, and thanks for putting your comment so politely.

chrispierce · Post by **chrispierce** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 9:04 pm

So you didn't spot this quote which in the actaully route descripton, on the CD ording page?

Paddington to Penzance 2.3
Same as 2.0 but includes the current patches to make it 2.3. Vastly improved track (all 1400 miles), fully signalled with platform markers and platforms, all terrain complete and more scenery. Still not complete, but much further on than Stage 1!

nestfilms · Post by **nestfilms** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 9:05 pm

i agree, i actually enjoy this route and i'm a modern day person.
My only gripe is that i wish that the scenery that has been added would not float above the ground on corners or over hang cliffs.
although there is plenty of this on certain payware products.

You could always scenerise it yourself if you want something to do

clanker88 · Post by **clanker88** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 9:06 pm

Ok - calmed down now and feeling reasonable.

Major apologies as the route readme does make it totally clear what's going on, and i Admire what the designers are doing.

Also apologies as the CD ordering page does 'hint' as to what to expect. But it would be nice if it was clearer: "includes more scenery" is a little ambiguous. Also i still cant understand why this is not available as a download on the downloads page? (unless it's related to the GWML route?)

look forward to enjoying this route more at some later period.

chrispierce · Post by **chrispierce** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 9:30 pm

clanker88 wrote:Ok - calmed down now and feeling reasonable.

Major apologies as the route readme does make it totally clear what's going on, and i Admire what the designers are doing.

Also apologies as the CD ordering page does 'hint' as to what to expect. But it would be nice if it was clearer: "includes more scenery" is a little ambiguous. Also i still cant understand why this is not available as a download on the downloads page? (unless it's related to the GWML route?)

look forward to enjoying this route more at some later period.

To be far to you, its is mentioned on a couple of pages, but not the one which you'd find without looking.

barrybryce01475 · Post by **barrybryce01475** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:09 pm

It may be worth having a drive around the areas that have been done. Had to move the route off my too small hard-disk for the moment to try out some others, but if I remember correctly round about Swindon works is worth lots more than the Â£4.50 on its own.

If you want a long route with lots of scenery, and you have a computer that can cope with it - Thames Mersey...

I must add I've always been delighted with the CDs - can't wait to get home to see YCR!

growler37 · Post by **growler37** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:02 pm

i am a great fan of this route! its a credit to its developers, the sheer
scale of the work is amazing.
being a cornish lad my only issue with the route is in any further updates
please can the penzance track layout be corrected.
personaly i would have paid a lot more for this route,it a BARGAIN!

KEVIN

johncarr · Post by **johncarr** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 1:55 pm

Growler 37
Many thanks for your comments. I know how hard Derick Joy and Dave Pascoe have worked to produce this route. It's an ongoing event and probably will never be finished, but time will tell.

I'm sure Derick would appreciate any info on your suggestion to rework the Penzance laypout, remember he now lives in America and research from afar is not that easy.

If clanker 88 is still unhappy with the Â£4.50 he paid for his CD and a months premium membership of UKTS let him pm me with his details and I will send him a cheque plus p&p for him to send it to me so that I can give the CD to someone who would like it.

Regards John Carr

bigvern · Post by **bigvern** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 2:59 pm

I don't know, there seem to be quite a number of similar threads running at present...this one, the one entitled "Purism" on the Beginners' Forum and the Swanage route critique elsewhere in this forum. If there is an issue with how the route has been represented perhaps that needs to be addressed, but it's all getting a bit depressing.

If train simming is indeed starting to become an elitist hobby with the expectation that even freeware or at cost CD routes have to be pinnacles of perfection then maybe it's time to get out. Please remember most routes (even the payware ones) are built by individuals in their spare time, working from often incomplete information usually for very little (even in the case of payware) or no reward. So a few miles don't have scenery, or a crossover is missing, or the route only goes from London to Watford, or an obscure piece of track has a tiny gap on certain graphics cards. Who bloody cares! It's a game, it's a hobby and I think several people lately are becoming rather anally retentive about the whole thing.

Despite my retirement from route building I did make a start on another short line based on the Fairford branch. It's not been progressed for a couple of weeks due to having a bad cold. But as an example of how current trends on the forum are making me think, how's this for an example. The stone station buildings and narrow overbridges on the line are very similar but not identical in all locations. A year or two ago I would just have made do and recycled the structures to save 3D building time. Now I'm genuinely concerned that if I use Fairford for Lechlade along will come someone from the purism police, piping up that it's wrong. Christus, 4 years ago we were happy if there were a few randomly placed cuboids by the line in TD3 or Railsim to represent the buildings.

Sorry for rant but I'm becoming increasingly concerned by this latest trend. All of us whether building routes or rolling stock do the best we can with the skills and tools we have available, interest in the programme is declining as it is - let's not hasten the demise by nitpicking the brave few who have picked up the editors to deliver the third party content.

buffy500 · Post by **buffy500** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 3:16 pm

bigvern wrote:several people lately are becoming rather anally retentive about the whole thing.

Without wanting to pass comment or stereo type people in anyway....

Suggesting that what "The Sun" would call "Train spotters" might be anally retentive is probably hardly news.

Its a hobby, but people appear to take an interest in trains to new depths or seriousness, including the simming part of it.
What ever people say, it is only a 'game', and people are only 'playing' trains. Something that might be forgotten sometimes.

TomB · Post by **TomB** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 3:17 pm

Well said Vern, can't agree with you more.

jdjonny · Post by **jdjonny** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 3:38 pm

I must say, even though the route is lacking in scenery at places, it is still a great reproduction of the real thing!

Just have a look at BTM - talk about stunning! Well worth Â£4.50 IMO..

JDJonny

LucaZone · Post by **LucaZone** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 4:00 pm

bigvern wrote:Please remember most routes (even the payware ones) are built by individuals in their spare time, working from often incomplete information usually for very little (even in the case of payware) or no reward. So a few miles don't have scenery, or a crossover is missing, or the route only goes from London to Watford, or an obscure piece of track has a tiny gap on certain graphics cards. Who bloody cares! It's a game, it's a hobby and I think several people lately are becoming rather anally retentive about the whole thing.

Sadly its already been said that this isnt an excuse. Apparently if your prepared to charge for your efforts and release a commercial route, you have to be prepared to be judged as a multi-million pound developer who has unlimited access to every inch of the line you create, and thus your customers should expect a true to life train game.

Or is it that Railway Modellers are infiltrating the hobby and bringing down the SIM empire from within!